From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: General advice beyond Org Date: Tue, 22 May 2018 09:10:50 +0200 Message-ID: <20180522071050.GA26414@tuxteam.de> References: <5869d0fb59fb1052eca11f2cde706ebd@openmail.cc> <87vabgg481.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; x-action=pgp-signed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1526972974 911 195.159.176.226 (22 May 2018 07:09:34 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 22 May 2018 07:09:34 +0000 (UTC) User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue May 22 09:09:29 2018 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1fL1QC-0008Tw-9l for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Tue, 22 May 2018 09:09:24 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:53991 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fL1SH-0003Vp-Pc for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Tue, 22 May 2018 03:11:33 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:46964) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fL1Rm-0003Vk-Ij for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 22 May 2018 03:11:07 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fL1Rj-00040a-Bx for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 22 May 2018 03:11:02 -0400 Original-Received: from mail.tuxteam.de ([5.199.139.25]:39379) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fL1Rj-0003yj-0j for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 22 May 2018 03:10:59 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=tuxteam.de; s=mail; h=From:In-Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Type:MIME-Version:References:Message-ID:Subject:To:Date; bh=JTscorqLH6CD3dIuHt4IKSgAtykDwILppVPHn6yyalk=; b=HydWUdM6a3cQ9KyRYhMLqyGrAhubYXpYSaalzn9mNv17BLGp7jv0V86uzSKuGXr+mLjPZWv1wqe+x/iv9cy8srbV9DtekvvlKGatpspDfah4EXJGZ3bITtvErVSPxv6C56H0EcCnc9am3lZYFb6N2ESbDG+JrmjAFN478EiD5IYBD/qyWzmYLmZltoUFMdW7QB3PrYVXg6R+REmQzs/lZlsYAG4Rw2JaAv/VaOR0hKV8MN/sHCKcQEVs0SPd3qIshMbyhkg8x8osZBuoJ4KCb0SNxqRWKDks39hEJwu0+M36ee4Va/FKx8bpvulxdt/BoxtQJHUrIUqm7wcSJIJwfQ==; Original-Received: from tomas by mail.tuxteam.de with local (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1fL1Rb-0006yx-Dd for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 22 May 2018 09:10:51 +0200 In-Reply-To: <87vabgg481.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 3.x [fuzzy] X-Received-From: 5.199.139.25 X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "help-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:116805 Archived-At: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Mon, May 21, 2018 at 01:10:06PM -0700, Eric Abrahamsen wrote: [...] > For anyone who's paying attention to US politics (I hope it's not > ruining your day) [...] There are so many ways to get one's day ruined... ;-) > positions that are held for emotional reasons only get stronger the more > you attack them. > > Knowing nothing more about your adviser than what you've written in this > thread, it sounds like it might be an emotional issue for her (as it may > be for you, and certainly is for many of us here!). Meaning, she's > likely to respond to any perceived "attack" by doubling down. I read that between your lines, but I think it's worth being stressed: mainstream discourse has for a long time painted "emotional" (as opposed to "rational") in a negative light. Since we perceive better those emotions that are not ours, we tend to misuse that to detract our opponents ("they are irrational") -- this verges on intellectual dishonesty, and has IMO helped to reach the situation we have these days. It's an echo of the reaction to the Age of Enlightenment that Romanticism was. The sensible (heh :) way out, IMO, is to accept that the "other" has as much right to her emotions as we have, and that our position only *seems* more rational to us, because we can't see our emotions as well as we can see the "other's". Or something. That doesn't mean to give up on one's position, nor to give up on convincing the "other" -- but it includes (and that's the painful part :-) accepting the possibility to be convinced by the "other". > So it might be time to try out the Daoist playbook and "do without > doing". Very much this :-) > That's not helpful advice without more specifics, but my > understanding of the approach is that you create the conditions > conducive to the result you want, rather than forcing the result itself. > So that might mean providing a useful FOSS-based service to your fellow > students, or helping people understand your workflow in a non-pressuring > way, or... otherwise convincing people that it was their idea to begin > with. Good idea. I'll steal it :-) Cheers & thanks - -- tomás -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.12 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAlsDwnoACgkQBcgs9XrR2kYAPgCaA7BjvHC5S+M3RsVjFyHNM7lK l/YAnjs+v+i8LzcxxLW7ozjg4+rnLyOM =iwIA -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----