Re: Issues with quail.el

[Amit Ramon <amit.ramon@riseup.net>]

Hi Eli,

Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> [2018-05-08 20:28 +0300]:

>> Date: Tue, 8 May 2018 11:41:40 +0300
>> From: Amit Ramon <amit.ramon@riseup.net>
>>
>> Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> [2018-05-07 22:33 +0300]:
>>
>> >
>> >I'm no expert on this, but does the fact that Dvorak keyboards need
>> >special input methods tell anything useful for your use case?
>>
>> Perhaps I wasn't clear enough. I've been using Dvorak keyboard layout
>> (defined at X level, physical keyboard is standard one) with Hebrew
>> input method for quite many years, and as for typing, i.e. inputting
>> Hebrew characters, everything works just fine. Dvorak keyboard doesn't
>> need special input method - AFAIK quail is designed to work with any
>> keyboard layout - you just have to tell quail about it.
>>
>> The problems I'm talking about are "second order" - they are related to
>> functions that display information about input methods and keyboard
>> layouts.
>
>My point was that maybe the "second-order" problems you bumped into do
>need something special like Dvorak input methods do.

No, this is not what I think. There are two things that one should be
able to set independently - input method and keyboard layout. One
should be able to use her favorite (or available) keyboard layout,
whether it is a physical keyboard or a layout defined in code (e.g., X
window keyboard layout), and this would usually be the 'constant'
factor. Then, inside Emacs, one should be able to choose different input
methods according to her needs. As far as I can tell from my own
experience and from investigating the code (quail.el), this is how
Emacs is designed to work.

>
>And we do have special input methods for Dvorak keyboard layouts,
>AFAIK: e.g., see programmer-dvorak and English-dvorak.

These input methods are for someone who's (physical) keyboard has the
standard layout, but who wish to use (in Emacs) a Dvorak layout. It's
not the situation I described.

(also, I just looked at the English-dvorak input method, and it also
has some issues, or perhaps features... more things to think about)

>I'm afraid all the experts on this matter are quite silent for several
>years.  But maybe someone will chime in...

Lets hope so...

In the meantime I'll try to continue my investigation, as my time will
permit. If things are still not clear enough and you would like me to
try and write a more coherent and detailed description of the way I
see these issues let me know.

Best,

Amit

P.s. Eli, I'm receiving your replies twice, I guess it is because you
send them to the list but also cc me directly. Unless this is
intentional for a reason that I'm missing, I think it would be best to send
them only to the list.