From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Bob Proulx Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: ESC vs Meta for shifted keys Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2018 17:26:42 -0600 Message-ID: <20180410171734910036965@bob.proulx.com> References: <86tvsiaoe3.fsf@zoho.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1523402728 9681 195.159.176.226 (10 Apr 2018 23:25:28 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2018 23:25:28 +0000 (UTC) User-Agent: Mutt/1.9.4 (2018-02-28) To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Apr 11 01:25:22 2018 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1f62dc-0002QC-OA for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Wed, 11 Apr 2018 01:25:20 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:55224 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1f62fi-0004HN-ET for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Tue, 10 Apr 2018 19:27:30 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:39646) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1f62f2-0004DT-Tv for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 10 Apr 2018 19:26:49 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1f62ey-0003A0-Bv for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 10 Apr 2018 19:26:48 -0400 Original-Received: from havoc.proulx.com ([96.88.95.61]:45795) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1f62ey-00039d-61 for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 10 Apr 2018 19:26:44 -0400 Original-Received: from joseki.proulx.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by havoc.proulx.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E69382570 for ; Tue, 10 Apr 2018 17:26:42 -0600 (MDT) Original-Received: from hysteria.proulx.com (hysteria.proulx.com [192.168.230.119]) by joseki.proulx.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BE3FF217EC for ; Tue, 10 Apr 2018 17:26:42 -0600 (MDT) Original-Received: by hysteria.proulx.com (Postfix, from userid 1000) id B499E2DC74; Tue, 10 Apr 2018 17:26:42 -0600 (MDT) Mail-Followup-To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <86tvsiaoe3.fsf@zoho.com> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] [fuzzy] X-Received-From: 96.88.95.61 X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "help-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:116452 Archived-At: Emanuel Berg wrote: > Does anyone use the actual ESC key instead of > Meta ("Alt" or whatever the keyboard > manufacturer puts on the key) these days? I use both interchangeably all of the time. And so does anyone using an XTerm with "Meta sends ESC" configured even if they never hit the ESC key themselves. Because there is no character sent for a meta key event, just escape sequences for the subsequent key. Therefore Meta with that setting on XTerm sends ESC and it all works mostly seemlessly. > I've heard, and seen picture of how the > keyboards once looked, and then it made more > sense to use it. I think you mean more sense to use meta-key using such keyboards? Because it certainly makes sense to use Alt-f for example for M-f forward-word and the rest of the meta characters. Current popular keyboards all have an Alt key. > Perhaps those keyboards didn't have the arrow > keys, and that's why it doesn't work :) The symbolics keyboard actually had a *different* arrow set than has become standard. The current "standard" comes from the ADM-3a. https://deskthority.net/keyboards-f2/lear-siegler-adm3a-terminal-keyboard-t11780.html Compare the arrow keys on the h, j, k, l on the ADM-3a to the Symbolics Space Cadet keyboard and you can see that the ADM-3a is the one that set the standard and the space cadet keyboard has been forgotten. > Monnier knows what to Google Image to find such > a keyboard image. If he does, I promise not to > lose it :$ How about this one? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space-cadet_keyboard Bob