OT: TUI applications

OT: TUI applications

[Russell Adams]

Given the unique user base of Org, I wanted to ask a question.

Has anyone seen any modern development libraries for TUI (console / character cell) applications? Ncurses the library is
not an answer as you have to start from scratch. There are thousands of web frameworks, and yet console is infinitely
simpler than a LAMP stack, but there are no prepackaged libraries for working with it (ie: forms, widgets, etc).

I frequently find myself in the position to need a small custom database application for this or that (contacts,
invoicing, recipes!). Python (or similar) + SQLite seems like a no brainer, except I don't want webapps or a giant GUI
program like libreoffice Base. I'd use something that was text forms based like an old dBase product.

I've looked at Emacs forms, but they appear to be only for editing CSV data.

Any ideas?

Thanks.


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Re: OT: TUI applications

[Allan Streib]

> Has anyone seen any modern development libraries for TUI (console /
> character cell) applications?

There's Console Framework[1] if you like C# and .NET/Mono.

Or maybe npyscreen[2] is more what you're looking for? 

1. https://elw00d.github.io/consoleframework/
2. http://npyscreen.readthedocs.io/introduction.html#purpose

Allan

Re: OT: TUI applications

[Russell Adams]

Allan,

On Wed, Oct 18, 2017 at 09:58:31AM -0400, Allan Streib wrote:
> > Has anyone seen any modern development libraries for TUI (console /
> > character cell) applications?
>
> There's Console Framework[1] if you like C# and .NET/Mono.

Anything Windows oriented is not what I'm looking for. I would say I strongly dislike that platform. ;]

> Or maybe npyscreen[2] is more what you're looking for?

I did see they recently added forms since I last looked at the project! I may try that out.

Thanks.



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Re: OT: TUI applications

[Grant Rettke]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1030 bytes --]

On Wed, Oct 18, 2017 at 8:23 AM, Russell Adams <RLAdams@adamsinfoserv.com>
wrote:

> Given the unique user base of Org, I wanted to ask a question.
>
> Has anyone seen any modern development libraries for TUI (console /
> character cell) applications? Ncurses the library is
> not an answer as you have to start from scratch. There are thousands of
> web frameworks, and yet console is infinitely
> simpler than a LAMP stack, but there are no prepackaged libraries for
> working with it (ie: forms, widgets, etc).
>
> I frequently find myself in the position to need a small custom database
> application for this or that (contacts,
> invoicing, recipes!). Python (or similar) + SQLite seems like a no
> brainer, except I don't want webapps or a giant GUI
> program like libreoffice Base. I'd use something that was text forms based
> like an old dBase product.
>
> I've looked at Emacs forms, but they appear to be only for editing CSV
> data.
>
> Any ideas?
>
>
> https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_mono/widget.html

[-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 1480 bytes --]

Re: OT: TUI applications

[Russell Adams]

On Wed, Oct 18, 2017 at 10:55:26AM -0500, Grant Rettke wrote:
> On Wed, Oct 18, 2017 at 8:23 AM, Russell Adams <RLAdams@adamsinfoserv.com>
>
> https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_mono/widget.html 

That's cool! I didn't realize that Emacs had some of that built in. I'll read up on that too!


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Russell Adams                            RLAdams@AdamsInfoServ.com

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Re: OT: TUI applications

[Tim Cross]

There is actually lots of these frameworks and libraries in many
different languages, so it really depends on what you are most
comfortable working in. I have used both Emacs forms and widgets in the
past. For example, I've used forms as an intermediate step between emacs
and a backend store where I have 'batch' commands which retrieve the
data into a file which forms use as input and then after editing the
data using Emacs forms, write the data back to the backend store (making
the forms a sort of 'batch' processor).

For shell scripts, whiptail, zenity and dialog usually work and if I
need something a little more, I've used Tcl/Tk or perl/Tk.

However, I am now trying to reduce my level of context switching between
different languages. As I'm doing more and more in the web environment,
I'm now playing with electron (atom shell), which allows me to easily do
a desktop app just using html, CSS and javascript (actually, my
intention is to use Clojurescript).

I've actually found that even with basic TUI libraries, there is still
too much low level stuff I don't want to worry about. Being able to use
a JS library I'm familiar with and avoid all the web server, browser
differences etc is much faster and simpler, plus the more I use it, the
easier it gets as I build up my own modules etc.

Tim

Russell Adams writes:

> Given the unique user base of Org, I wanted to ask a question.
>
> Has anyone seen any modern development libraries for TUI (console / character cell) applications? Ncurses the library is
> not an answer as you have to start from scratch. There are thousands of web frameworks, and yet console is infinitely
> simpler than a LAMP stack, but there are no prepackaged libraries for working with it (ie: forms, widgets, etc).
>
> I frequently find myself in the position to need a small custom database application for this or that (contacts,
> invoicing, recipes!). Python (or similar) + SQLite seems like a no brainer, except I don't want webapps or a giant GUI
> program like libreoffice Base. I'd use something that was text forms based like an old dBase product.
>
> I've looked at Emacs forms, but they appear to be only for editing CSV data.
>
> Any ideas?
>
> Thanks.
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------
> Russell Adams                            RLAdams@AdamsInfoServ.com
>
> PGP Key ID:     0x1160DCB3           http://www.adamsinfoserv.com/
>
> Fingerprint:    1723 D8CA 4280 1EC9 557F  66E8 1154 E018 1160 DCB3


-- 
Tim Cross

Re: OT: TUI applications

[Russell Adams]

Tim,

While I appreciate the insight, Tk and web apps are outside the scope of what I'm looking for. I've used Tk with Python
and Perl and don't care for it.

I value the low overhead, speed, and simplicity of terminal applications. I use Mutt for all my email, and the only GUI
app I use with any regularity is Firefox.

I'm trying to find a fast way to implement similar terminal applications for simple databases that I use casually.

Thanks.

On Thu, Oct 19, 2017 at 09:05:47AM +1100, Tim Cross wrote:
>
> There is actually lots of these frameworks and libraries in many
> different languages, so it really depends on what you are most
> comfortable working in. I have used both Emacs forms and widgets in the
> past. For example, I've used forms as an intermediate step between emacs
> and a backend store where I have 'batch' commands which retrieve the
> data into a file which forms use as input and then after editing the
> data using Emacs forms, write the data back to the backend store (making
> the forms a sort of 'batch' processor).
>
> For shell scripts, whiptail, zenity and dialog usually work and if I
> need something a little more, I've used Tcl/Tk or perl/Tk.
>
> However, I am now trying to reduce my level of context switching between
> different languages. As I'm doing more and more in the web environment,
> I'm now playing with electron (atom shell), which allows me to easily do
> a desktop app just using html, CSS and javascript (actually, my
> intention is to use Clojurescript).
>
> I've actually found that even with basic TUI libraries, there is still
> too much low level stuff I don't want to worry about. Being able to use
> a JS library I'm familiar with and avoid all the web server, browser
> differences etc is much faster and simpler, plus the more I use it, the
> easier it gets as I build up my own modules etc.
>
> Tim
>
> Russell Adams writes:
>
> > Given the unique user base of Org, I wanted to ask a question.
> >
> > Has anyone seen any modern development libraries for TUI (console / character cell) applications? Ncurses the library is
> > not an answer as you have to start from scratch. There are thousands of web frameworks, and yet console is infinitely
> > simpler than a LAMP stack, but there are no prepackaged libraries for working with it (ie: forms, widgets, etc).
> >
> > I frequently find myself in the position to need a small custom database application for this or that (contacts,
> > invoicing, recipes!). Python (or similar) + SQLite seems like a no brainer, except I don't want webapps or a giant GUI
> > program like libreoffice Base. I'd use something that was text forms based like an old dBase product.
> >
> > I've looked at Emacs forms, but they appear to be only for editing CSV data.
> >
> > Any ideas?
> >
> > Thanks.
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------
> > Russell Adams                            RLAdams@AdamsInfoServ.com
> >
> > PGP Key ID:     0x1160DCB3           http://www.adamsinfoserv.com/
> >
> > Fingerprint:    1723 D8CA 4280 1EC9 557F  66E8 1154 E018 1160 DCB3
>
>
> --
> Tim Cross
>


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Russell Adams                            RLAdams@AdamsInfoServ.com

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Re: OT: TUI applications

[Marcin Borkowski]

On 2017-10-18, at 18:47, Russell Adams <RLAdams@AdamsInfoServ.Com> wrote:

> On Wed, Oct 18, 2017 at 10:55:26AM -0500, Grant Rettke wrote:
>> On Wed, Oct 18, 2017 at 8:23 AM, Russell Adams <RLAdams@adamsinfoserv.com>
>>
>> https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_mono/widget.html
>
> That's cool! I didn't realize that Emacs had some of that built in. I'll read up on that too!

One problem with widget is that (AFAIR) it is fairly low-level.  Still,
you can do cool stuff with it.  See
e.g. http://mbork.pl/2015-11-21_The_Emacs_widget_library_and_automatic_modification_of_editing_fields

Hth,

-- 
Marcin Borkowski