From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Alan Third Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#28790: [PATCH] Replaced "which see" with "q.v.". Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2017 22:47:44 +0100 Message-ID: <20171016214744.GC44072@breton.holly.idiocy.org> References: <838tggoo8m.fsf@gnu.org> <87po9pi7p4.fsf@gmail.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1508190510 27370 195.159.176.226 (16 Oct 2017 21:48:30 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2017 21:48:30 +0000 (UTC) User-Agent: Mutt/1.9.0 (2017-09-02) Cc: =?UTF-8?Q?Jo=C3=A3o_?= =?UTF-8?Q?T=C3=A1vora?= , 28790@debbugs.gnu.org To: John Williams Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Oct 16 23:48:23 2017 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1e4DF2-0004Yv-8M for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Mon, 16 Oct 2017 23:48:08 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:35374 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1e4DF9-0001w6-Ic for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Mon, 16 Oct 2017 17:48:15 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:37046) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1e4DEz-0001vB-QE for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 16 Oct 2017 17:48:06 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1e4DEw-0007CE-ON for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 16 Oct 2017 17:48:05 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.43]:35685) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1e4DEw-0007C0-Ja for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 16 Oct 2017 17:48:02 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1e4DEw-0006xj-CR for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 16 Oct 2017 17:48:02 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Alan Third Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2017 21:48:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 28790 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: patch Original-Received: via spool by 28790-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B28790.150819047526742 (code B ref 28790); Mon, 16 Oct 2017 21:48:02 +0000 Original-Received: (at 28790) by debbugs.gnu.org; 16 Oct 2017 21:47:55 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:44365 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1e4DEp-0006xF-3Z for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 16 Oct 2017 17:47:55 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-wm0-f51.google.com ([74.125.82.51]:55833) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1e4DEm-0006x0-VM for 28790@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 16 Oct 2017 17:47:53 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-wm0-f51.google.com with SMTP id u138so89372wmu.4 for <28790@debbugs.gnu.org>; Mon, 16 Oct 2017 14:47:52 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=20161025; h=sender:date:from:to:cc:subject:message-id:references:mime-version :content-disposition:content-transfer-encoding:in-reply-to :user-agent; bh=sfXKRFZyEJnrE62jFQEOD92AapuR3nfNknlxCSVtp7M=; b=fNsPRp1FaD0E9i+l4OrbxR0iJQsMcxTPz1KS1gVXG2od4xqbdceDIcDNK3uJaY0iM5 //xGY8G7WOpK+ZwztFjvmamtflds4jyEcWTEFmqAxjUOl+Vb4UKToBknkfKSmSNIgMF5 PfgvZujUH4Cd4+0jykf+02AZk044tQhNHalKdxZzb4s4HfnfKKS7qpGi+EvWlOxzsfgb BbM78bwgUgpmLc/pwwKmYYzNsJ8r/28CzRGhNThflP+FYRaTgY03EPj3Mk+k+iZH2kRr UyZPHz6lZiqDIssY4k4xJf85HuaqIyE9TnEpBQdBig/B3yPQpTIsS7/C2Op5mPQ++vSy 7L/w== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:sender:date:from:to:cc:subject:message-id :references:mime-version:content-disposition :content-transfer-encoding:in-reply-to:user-agent; bh=sfXKRFZyEJnrE62jFQEOD92AapuR3nfNknlxCSVtp7M=; b=pVZuQfks4RC+qYuXf+eiGRJYzFQpZpifrpbUUNNQdQodfdrPRFa7/qVU2E/+Sc5d6O zBFYoZsB71Exye2kZ77KVzzt+CVCeFNL+/FdfbdWu8MjBA6O1ADJhdDP5OLj2sdsd7TT QSUxPL0RAlwfv21LA6qtyJlWdwXCI1bu5Xm/gkal4Ui2tpKcngNP/vV9JeA/XW4rEcj/ 78VB11qwtaBK++d5iwmlqDi61/nXGQ1tJdkOskT5d0d76dP8SsHvbnZNdUBoLRPnDdnj bGLpSv7VE3xqzB92CDwTXgoBDiwH+ONfE1KB+DLdvzsMYl46GemzjW+AYxYaN/8AoIH1 DU6Q== X-Gm-Message-State: AMCzsaVnDbX+tF0JYrTNMPpC1B02dda+W5kWiW+NYkpAbtKBrnseUA0T W6kSSy5ZZp0NQtrrC11oz58= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABhQp+TnMywN4a/xX4aS4KzhzMrGXLrs5kBxVbFIa9YRUVbexCK43h/A4SxVM2bv+rTNuM3eYlSEpA== X-Received: by 10.28.92.133 with SMTP id q127mr1743552wmb.26.1508190467381; Mon, 16 Oct 2017 14:47:47 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from breton.holly.idiocy.org (ip6-2001-08b0-03f8-8129-dcdc-51e0-14de-5471.holly.idiocy.org. [2001:8b0:3f8:8129:dcdc:51e0:14de:5471]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id m48sm13461835wrf.51.2017.10.16.14.47.46 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 16 Oct 2017 14:47:46 -0700 (PDT) Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 208.118.235.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "bug-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:138556 Archived-At: On Sat, Oct 14, 2017 at 06:03:31PM -0700, John Williams wrote: > I still maintain that "which see" is an anachronism that the vast > majority of English speakers will find meaningless at best, and > confusing at worst, but since RMS already said he disagrees, I don't > see much point in pressing the issue further without collecting some > hard data on English usage, and that seems like it would be an > excessively quixotic pursuit. I had to use Google to find out what it meant when I was reading the Emacs manual. I don’t believe I’ve ever seen it used anywhere else. For me, the only advantage of replacing it with ‘q.v.’ would have been that I’d immediately know that I didn’t know what it meant, rather than assuming the writer made a grammatical mistake. -- Alan Third