From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Alan Mackenzie Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#23425: master branch: `message' wrongly corrupts ' to curly quote. Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2017 17:34:00 +0000 Message-ID: <20170608173400.GA2662@acm.fritz.box> References: <20170602210209.GA3570@acm.fritz.box> <11c0adfb-7fdd-8d28-1a47-869e3e7043ea@cs.ucla.edu> <20170603205331.GA2130@acm.fritz.box> <20170605162737.GA30946@acm.fritz.box> <20170605203753.GB30946@acm.fritz.box> <20170607191344.GB2430@acm.fritz.box> NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1496943378 20435 195.159.176.226 (8 Jun 2017 17:36:18 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2017 17:36:18 +0000 (UTC) User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.24 (2015-08-30) Cc: 23425@debbugs.gnu.org To: Paul Eggert Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Jun 08 19:36:09 2017 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1dJ1Ls-0004pD-CD for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Thu, 08 Jun 2017 19:36:08 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:50824 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1dJ1Lx-0001N2-J9 for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Thu, 08 Jun 2017 13:36:13 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:56169) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1dJ1Lp-0001Mk-PI for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 08 Jun 2017 13:36:06 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1dJ1Lm-0002cv-R6 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 08 Jun 2017 13:36:05 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.43]:60940) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1dJ1Lm-0002ck-M7 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 08 Jun 2017 13:36:02 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1dJ1Lm-0006ej-D5 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 08 Jun 2017 13:36:02 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Alan Mackenzie Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2017 17:36:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 23425 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: Original-Received: via spool by 23425-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B23425.149694330925476 (code B ref 23425); Thu, 08 Jun 2017 17:36:02 +0000 Original-Received: (at 23425) by debbugs.gnu.org; 8 Jun 2017 17:35:09 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:35384 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1dJ1Ku-0006cq-L9 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 08 Jun 2017 13:35:08 -0400 Original-Received: from ocolin.muc.de ([193.149.48.4]:32339 helo=mail.muc.de) by debbugs.gnu.org with smtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1dJ1Kr-0006cd-Pd for 23425@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 08 Jun 2017 13:35:06 -0400 Original-Received: (qmail 43479 invoked by uid 3782); 8 Jun 2017 17:35:04 -0000 Original-Received: from acm.muc.de (p548C6D7E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [84.140.109.126]) by colin.muc.de (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Thu, 08 Jun 2017 19:35:03 +0200 Original-Received: (qmail 2739 invoked by uid 1000); 8 Jun 2017 17:34:00 -0000 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/1.1.12 (Macallan) X-Primary-Address: acm@muc.de X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 208.118.235.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "bug-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:133403 Archived-At: Hello, Paul. On Wed, Jun 07, 2017 at 16:28:28 -0700, Paul Eggert wrote: > On 06/07/2017 12:13 PM, Alan Mackenzie wrote: > > What I am arguing against is being required to use _two_ format > > strings in one message invocation, as (message "%s" (format "..." ...)). > We could address this problem by defining a new function (‘memo’, say), > that acts like ‘message’ except that it takes just one argument and does > no format processing. That way, instead of writing (message "%s" (format > FMT A B C)), one could write (memo (format FMT A B C)), thus avoiding > the need for two format strings. YUCK! So we'd have both message and memo doing basically the same thing, with different interfaces. Better to make them have the same interface. In that case, you've got two functions which are so close to eachother, one single function would be better..... > > _Nobody_ will have the slightest difficulty with % in message, because > > it stands out visually. > I don’t see what “standing out visually” has to do it. If one naively > expects (message "30%-50% done") to display "30%-50% done", one will be > surprised/disappointed/angry/whatever when Emacs displays only "30% done". NOBODY will write (message "30%-50% done"). They'll be writing (message "%s%-%s% done" low high), where low is 30 and high is 50. The contradiction in the % is then obvious, and they can correct their mistaken % (both of them) to %%. > > It may be documented, but it's still surreptitious. It seems > > intended by its writer to be as hidden as possible > It’s not intended to be “surreptitious” or “hidden” or anything like > that, .... That may be the case, but it _seems_ very much like it. If the intention had actually been to be surreptitious, what more could have been done than was actually done? There are also other things which reinforce this appearance of surreptition. They should also be fixed. > .... and we should fix any part of the documentation that suggests > otherwise. It would be helpful to point out any specific parts of the > documentation needing improvement in this area. The documentation is fine. It's the design and coding which suggest the surreptition, and it is the design and coding which need fixing. -- Alan Mackenzie (Nuremberg, Germany).