From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Alan Mackenzie Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: bug#23425: master branch: `message' wrongly corrupts ' to curly quote. Date: Sat, 3 Jun 2017 21:01:01 +0000 Message-ID: <20170603210101.GB2130@acm.fritz.box> References: <83zis4h59w.fsf@gnu.org> <51a2ae75-71f7-10f6-ae2a-7c830bdf0a30@cs.ucla.edu> <17c1c00d-a275-5e61-0c47-6872a64a9347@cs.ucla.edu> <20170531212452.GA3789@acm.fritz.box> <07bf5f9d-e8cd-a4d9-1843-b488bfe0b92c@cs.ucla.edu> <20170602210209.GA3570@acm.fritz.box> <11c0adfb-7fdd-8d28-1a47-869e3e7043ea@cs.ucla.edu> <73poemlyhp.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> Reply-To: emacs-devel@gnu.org NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1496523732 16947 195.159.176.226 (3 Jun 2017 21:02:12 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 3 Jun 2017 21:02:12 +0000 (UTC) User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.24 (2015-08-30) Cc: Paul Eggert , 23425@debbugs.gnu.org To: Glenn Morris , emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Jun 03 23:02:08 2017 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1dHGBU-0004A5-1e for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 03 Jun 2017 23:02:08 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:54824 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1dHGBZ-0006Qz-79 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 03 Jun 2017 17:02:13 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:37130) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1dHGBT-0006Qb-N3 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 03 Jun 2017 17:02:08 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1dHGBP-0002vC-Bb for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 03 Jun 2017 17:02:07 -0400 Original-Received: from ocolin.muc.de ([193.149.48.4]:15110 helo=mail.muc.de) by eggs.gnu.org with smtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1dHGBP-0002un-4o for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 03 Jun 2017 17:02:03 -0400 Original-Received: (qmail 39273 invoked by uid 3782); 3 Jun 2017 21:02:02 -0000 Original-Received: from acm.muc.de (p4FC46308.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [79.196.99.8]) by colin.muc.de (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Sat, 03 Jun 2017 23:02:01 +0200 Original-Received: (qmail 2276 invoked by uid 1000); 3 Jun 2017 21:01:01 -0000 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <73poemlyhp.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/1.1.12 (Macallan) X-Primary-Address: acm@muc.de X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: FreeBSD 9.x [fuzzy] X-Received-From: 193.149.48.4 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:215434 Archived-At: [ Posted to emacs-devel@gnu.org. Reply-To: set there too. ] On Fri, Jun 02, 2017 at 20:13:22 -0400, Glenn Morris wrote: > > We had that discussion there already, and I doubt whether it'd be > > worthwhile to repeat it. Of course you're free to take it there again > > if you like. The discussion was abruptly suspended with "we're too close to a release", without any conclusion having been reached. `message' and friends are in a thoroughly unsatisfactory state, with wild ad-hoc rules, and obstruse formulations needed as workarounds. > I think this is a situation where the maintainer(s) should simply > announce a decision, so that we can stop going over the same ground > again and again. (Personally I think a year and two releases means the > decision is already made.) The decision was made in the near infinite number of releases prior to Emacs 25 to have a rational and clear system of special characters beginning with %. Quote translation, which was introduced into Emacs without a consensus amongst developers has destroyed that rationality and simplicity. -- Alan Mackenzie (Nuremberg, Germany).