From: Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de>
To: Dmitry Gutov <dgutov@yandex.ru>
Cc: Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca>, emacs-devel@gnu.org
Subject: Re: forward-comment and syntax-ppss
Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2016 10:17:15 +0000 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <20161211101715.GA14084@acm.fritz.box> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <5a70902f-882e-f616-74b2-df6eb81fc70c@yandex.ru>
Hello, Dmitry.
On Sat, Dec 10, 2016 at 01:30:24AM +0200, Dmitry Gutov wrote:
> On 09.12.2016 21:07, Alan Mackenzie wrote:
> > That could be. But a variable called syntax-ppss-dont-widen has the
> > caller explicitly messing around with the flowchart of syntax-ppss,
> > which is not a good thing. I think my proposed new local variable is
> > better for this reason.
> It's better in one sense and worse in another. Since parse-partial-sexp
> can't parse backwards, you're leaving a whole range of values of POS on
> which syntax-ppss will have to just raise an error.
I don't think this is an issue. (syntax-ppss-1 POS), when
new-local-variable is non-nil simulates (parse-partial-sexp
new-local-variable POS), and the latter would throw an error for
precisely the same values of POS as the former.
> > Narrowing doesn't change the buffer state either, beyond what it
> > explicitly says it does.
> It changes state and, as such, behavior of a huge number of functions
> (both core and third-party ones).
Maybe, but these changes are the direct desired effect of narrowing.
They're not nasty unforeseen side effects.
> > In particular, it doesn't change things like
> > whether a particular buffer position is inside a string.
> Not every buffer position is unequivocally "inside a strong" or not.
> Take this example.
> // Here's a string: "abc".
> Is abc inside a string? That depends on what exactly we mean by that,
> for a given use case.
That may be the case, but that has nothing to do with what I said ("In
particular, it doesn't change ...."). Whether abc is inside a string or
not doesn't vary by the narrowing. It's determined by other factors.
> > It tends to be trivial to add stuff on. Much easier than getting rid of
> > stuff. And that extra stuff might well be fat rather than muscle.
> That's just rhetoric.
I don't think so. In particular, I was thinking of what I think is
called "hard widening". I think it would be a mistake to add this
feature. At the moment, narrowing is a strong, direct, simple facility
- it does what it says it does and no more. Were "hard widening" to be
introduced, we could easily end up with a confused mess of `widen' and
`hard-widen' through the code, with nobody being quite sure which one to
use and why. There might be lots of depressing errors where the wrong
one is used.
> >> You keep repeating that word (replace), as though that solves anything.
> > It would solve bug #22983.
> No, it won't. For instance, because the bug is complaining about the
> behavior of syntax-ppss (see, I can play these word games too).
Oh dear, Dmitry! ;-)
> More importantly, any change you would make to the "new" function you
> could make to syntax-ppss instead.
The new function would be a different function, i.e. it would have a
different definition. Just for clarity, it would not be written from
scratch, it would be based on the current syntax-ppss.
> >> and that function doesn't have an "escape hatch", the multi-mode
> >> packages will be hung out to dry.
> > I wouldn't want that to happen. Does the suggested new buffer local
> > variable (to specify the lower bound in the notional partial-parse-sexp)
> > not provide this escape hatch?
> It would (if we're talking about changing syntax-ppss, and not anything
> else). It does come with its own weird semantics, however, mentioned at
> the top of this message.
> Further, the good part of this proposal is more or less equivalent to
> "indexing syntax-ppss cache by point-min" as proposed by Stefan.
I think I agree here. But "good part" implies the existence of a "less
good part". What, in your view, constitues this "less good part"?
--
Alan Mackenzie (Nuremberg, Germany).
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2016-12-11 10:17 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 299+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2016-11-28 19:50 Preview: portable dumper Daniel Colascione
2016-11-28 19:58 ` Burton Samograd
2016-11-28 20:11 ` Daniel Colascione
2016-11-28 20:12 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-11-28 20:14 ` Daniel Colascione
2016-11-28 20:16 ` Daniel Colascione
2016-11-28 20:29 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-11-28 20:20 ` John Wiegley
2016-11-28 20:22 ` Daniel Colascione
2016-11-28 20:26 ` John Wiegley
2016-11-28 20:31 ` Daniel Colascione
2016-11-28 20:37 ` Burton Samograd
2016-11-28 20:44 ` Daniel Colascione
2016-11-29 16:02 ` Ted Zlatanov
2016-11-29 17:58 ` Daniel Colascione
2016-11-29 16:48 ` Richard Stallman
2016-11-29 17:32 ` Daniel Colascione
2016-11-29 19:55 ` Philippe Vaucher
2016-11-29 17:43 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-11-29 17:49 ` Daniel Colascione
2016-11-29 18:17 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-11-29 18:03 ` John Wiegley
2016-11-29 18:23 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-11-29 18:49 ` Daniel Colascione
2016-11-29 19:02 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-12-01 9:18 ` Richard Stallman
2016-12-01 18:11 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-12-02 4:28 ` Ken Raeburn
2016-12-02 4:41 ` Daniel Colascione
2016-12-02 8:08 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-12-02 8:03 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-12-02 17:24 ` Ken Raeburn
2016-11-28 20:39 ` John Wiegley
2016-11-28 20:34 ` Burton Samograd
2016-11-28 20:31 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-11-28 20:21 ` Paul Eggert
2016-11-28 20:34 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-11-28 20:47 ` John Wiegley
2016-11-28 21:14 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-11-28 21:55 ` Daniel Colascione
2016-11-28 22:18 ` John Wiegley
2016-11-29 18:40 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-11-29 19:11 ` John Wiegley
2016-11-29 20:07 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-11-29 20:29 ` John Wiegley
2016-11-29 20:36 ` Daniel Colascione
2016-11-29 21:30 ` John Wiegley
2016-11-30 8:26 ` Philippe Vaucher
2016-11-29 19:12 ` Daniel Colascione
2016-11-29 16:55 ` Richard Stallman
2016-11-29 18:39 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-11-29 19:03 ` Daniel Colascione
2016-11-29 19:59 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-11-29 20:28 ` John Wiegley
2016-11-29 19:13 ` Paul Eggert
2016-11-29 19:35 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-11-29 20:54 ` Paul Eggert
2016-11-30 16:38 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-11-30 18:57 ` John Wiegley
2016-11-30 19:14 ` Daniel Colascione
2016-11-30 21:03 ` John Wiegley
2016-11-30 21:06 ` Paul Eggert
2016-11-30 21:44 ` John Wiegley
2016-12-01 3:32 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-12-01 9:16 ` Paul Eggert
2016-12-01 17:26 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-12-01 17:35 ` Daniel Colascione
2016-12-01 17:58 ` Paul Eggert
2016-11-30 21:35 ` Daniel Colascione
2016-11-30 21:44 ` John Wiegley
2016-11-30 21:50 ` Daniel Colascione
2016-11-30 22:20 ` John Wiegley
2016-12-01 1:37 ` Paul Eggert
2016-12-01 1:45 ` Daniel Colascione
2016-12-01 3:47 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-12-01 4:10 ` John Wiegley
2016-12-01 4:12 ` Daniel Colascione
2016-12-01 4:49 ` John Wiegley
2016-12-01 5:12 ` Daniel Colascione
2016-12-01 9:03 ` Matt Armstrong
2016-12-02 8:10 ` John Wiegley
2016-12-01 9:18 ` Phillip Lord
2016-12-01 4:10 ` Daniel Colascione
2016-12-01 3:41 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-11-30 19:29 ` Philippe Vaucher
2016-11-30 19:45 ` Daniel Colascione
2016-11-30 21:06 ` Paul Eggert
2016-12-01 9:18 ` Richard Stallman
2016-12-01 18:09 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-12-02 2:18 ` Stefan Monnier
2016-12-02 7:54 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-12-02 8:08 ` John Wiegley
2016-12-02 8:59 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-12-02 19:39 ` John Wiegley
2016-12-02 20:11 ` Karl Fogel
2016-12-02 21:22 ` Daniel Colascione
2016-12-02 22:06 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-12-02 23:15 ` Karl Fogel
2016-12-15 14:28 ` Philippe Vaucher
2017-10-18 23:36 ` Kaushal Modi
2017-10-19 10:12 ` Jeremie Courreges-Anglas
2018-02-12 20:18 ` Daniel Colascione
2018-02-13 16:37 ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-02-14 21:03 ` Philipp Stephani
2018-02-15 0:42 ` Daniel Colascione
2018-02-15 23:31 ` Ken Brown
2018-02-15 23:36 ` Daniel Colascione
2018-02-16 1:56 ` Ken Brown
2018-02-16 2:36 ` Daniel Colascione
2018-02-17 23:38 ` Ken Brown
2018-02-17 23:59 ` Ken Brown
2018-02-18 0:02 ` Daniel Colascione
2018-02-19 13:30 ` Ken Brown
2018-02-19 17:03 ` Daniel Colascione
2018-02-19 22:33 ` Ken Brown
2018-02-20 16:32 ` Ken Brown
2018-02-20 17:23 ` Daniel Colascione
2018-02-20 1:16 ` Andy Moreton
2018-02-17 1:01 ` Clément Pit-Claudel
2018-02-19 17:06 ` Daniel Colascione
2018-02-19 22:00 ` Clément Pit-Claudel
2018-02-17 11:53 ` Charles A. Roelli
2018-02-17 12:09 ` Alan Third
2018-02-17 14:12 ` Charles A. Roelli
2018-02-20 0:54 ` Andy Moreton
2018-02-15 4:28 ` Stefan Monnier
2018-02-15 22:13 ` Daniel Colascione
2018-02-15 22:30 ` Paul Eggert
2018-02-15 22:35 ` Daniel Colascione
2018-02-15 22:56 ` Paul Eggert
2018-02-15 22:35 ` Paul Eggert
2018-02-15 18:34 ` andres.ramirez
2018-02-19 22:01 ` Daniele Nicolodi
2018-02-20 0:28 ` Daniel Colascione
2016-12-02 22:06 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-12-02 22:28 ` Daniel Colascione
2016-12-03 8:48 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-12-03 9:34 ` Daniel Colascione
2016-12-03 12:47 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-12-03 14:36 ` Alan Mackenzie
2016-12-03 15:11 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-12-04 12:20 ` Alan Mackenzie
2016-12-04 12:48 ` Dmitry Gutov
2016-12-04 15:53 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-12-03 17:36 ` Daniel Colascione
2016-12-03 17:40 ` Dmitry Gutov
2016-12-03 21:09 ` Stefan Monnier
2016-12-03 21:31 ` Daniel Colascione
2016-12-04 4:25 ` Stefan Monnier
2016-12-04 12:34 ` Alan Mackenzie
2016-12-04 12:51 ` Dmitry Gutov
2016-12-04 14:08 ` Stefan Monnier
2016-12-04 15:22 ` Alan Mackenzie
2016-12-04 22:24 ` forward-comment and syntax-ppss (was: Preview: portable dumper) Stefan Monnier
2016-12-06 19:55 ` Alan Mackenzie
2016-12-06 22:56 ` forward-comment and syntax-ppss Stefan Monnier
2016-12-07 6:55 ` Andreas Röhler
2016-12-07 14:01 ` Stefan Monnier
2016-12-07 14:49 ` Andreas Röhler
2016-12-07 14:53 ` Clément Pit--Claudel
2016-12-07 22:04 ` Alan Mackenzie
2016-12-07 22:23 ` Clément Pit--Claudel
2016-12-08 19:31 ` Alan Mackenzie
2016-12-08 19:54 ` Clément Pit--Claudel
2016-12-09 8:37 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-12-08 2:32 ` Stefan Monnier
2016-12-08 20:15 ` Alan Mackenzie
2016-12-08 20:34 ` Clément Pit--Claudel
2016-12-08 21:25 ` Dmitry Gutov
2016-12-08 21:35 ` Stefan Monnier
2016-12-08 21:13 ` Stefan Monnier
2016-12-09 18:00 ` Alan Mackenzie
2016-12-09 18:47 ` Stefan Monnier
2016-12-09 22:33 ` Clément Pit--Claudel
2016-12-09 23:09 ` Alan Mackenzie
2016-12-10 6:56 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-12-10 18:39 ` Andreas Röhler
2016-12-08 21:24 ` Dmitry Gutov
2016-12-08 21:47 ` Stefan Monnier
2016-12-09 7:39 ` Andreas Röhler
2016-12-09 19:07 ` Alan Mackenzie
2016-12-09 23:30 ` Dmitry Gutov
2016-12-11 0:24 ` Stefan Monnier
2016-12-11 10:17 ` Alan Mackenzie [this message]
2016-12-11 10:40 ` Andreas Röhler
2016-12-16 1:33 ` Dmitry Gutov
2016-12-16 2:06 ` Drew Adams
2016-12-16 8:12 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-12-16 12:32 ` Dmitry Gutov
2016-12-16 16:22 ` Drew Adams
2016-12-16 19:14 ` Dmitry Gutov
2016-12-16 23:16 ` Drew Adams
2016-12-17 0:08 ` Dmitry Gutov
2016-12-16 19:25 ` Alan Mackenzie
2016-12-16 20:06 ` Dmitry Gutov
2016-12-16 23:16 ` Drew Adams
2016-12-17 0:42 ` Dmitry Gutov
2016-12-17 1:30 ` Drew Adams
2016-12-17 1:40 ` Stefan Monnier
2016-12-17 2:26 ` Drew Adams
2016-12-17 14:37 ` Stefan Monnier
2016-12-16 14:24 ` Clément Pit--Claudel
2016-12-16 16:22 ` Drew Adams
2016-12-16 19:50 ` Clément Pit--Claudel
2016-12-16 23:16 ` Drew Adams
2016-12-17 2:39 ` Clément Pit--Claudel
2016-12-17 4:50 ` Wording of the Elisp manuals (was: forward-comment and syntax-ppss) Marcin Borkowski
2016-12-20 9:22 ` Wording of the Elisp manuals Michael Heerdegen
2016-12-20 10:52 ` Wording of the Elisp manuals (was: forward-comment and syntax-ppss) Jean-Christophe Helary
2016-12-20 16:01 ` Eli Zaretskii
[not found] ` <<83oa0c8f7r.fsf@gnu.org>
2016-12-16 16:22 ` forward-comment and syntax-ppss Drew Adams
2016-12-16 21:00 ` Eli Zaretskii
[not found] ` <<8337hn8u81.fsf@gnu.org>
2016-12-16 23:16 ` Drew Adams
2016-12-16 20:06 ` Alan Mackenzie
2016-12-16 22:08 ` Dmitry Gutov
2016-12-16 23:08 ` Stefan Monnier
2016-12-17 0:18 ` Dmitry Gutov
2016-12-17 7:37 ` Marcin Borkowski
2016-12-17 7:42 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-12-17 14:41 ` Stefan Monnier
2016-12-17 14:49 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-12-17 15:09 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2016-12-18 20:08 ` Dmitry Gutov
2017-02-05 23:33 ` Drew Adams
2016-12-17 15:38 ` Stefan Monnier
2016-12-19 2:31 ` Dmitry Gutov
2016-12-19 13:12 ` Stefan Monnier
2016-12-19 13:34 ` Dmitry Gutov
2016-12-19 14:17 ` Stefan Monnier
2016-12-19 23:16 ` Dmitry Gutov
2016-12-20 13:33 ` Stefan Monnier
2017-11-29 23:48 ` multi-modes and widen (again), was: " Dmitry Gutov
2017-11-30 13:05 ` Stefan Monnier
2017-12-01 23:57 ` Dmitry Gutov
2016-12-16 23:16 ` Drew Adams
2016-12-09 8:35 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-12-09 17:08 ` Alan Mackenzie
2016-12-09 17:22 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-12-09 21:55 ` Richard Stallman
2016-12-03 21:31 ` Preview: portable dumper Richard Stallman
2016-12-04 12:41 ` Alan Mackenzie
2016-12-03 17:41 ` Paul Eggert
2016-12-03 19:49 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-12-03 21:30 ` Richard Stallman
2016-12-04 3:31 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-12-04 23:03 ` Richard Stallman
2016-12-03 17:24 ` Paul Eggert
2016-12-03 15:56 ` Stefan Monnier
2016-12-03 21:31 ` Richard Stallman
2016-12-04 23:05 ` Richard Stallman
2016-12-02 22:29 ` John Wiegley
2016-12-03 21:28 ` Richard Stallman
2016-12-04 15:57 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-12-04 17:12 ` Daniel Colascione
2016-12-04 23:07 ` Richard Stallman
2016-12-05 0:24 ` Daniel Colascione
2016-12-06 10:38 ` Philippe Vaucher
2016-12-02 9:00 ` Philippe Vaucher
2016-12-02 10:56 ` Eli Zaretskii
2017-05-26 19:48 ` Thien-Thi Nguyen
2017-05-26 20:26 ` Kaushal Modi
2017-05-27 7:27 ` Thien-Thi Nguyen
2016-12-02 13:04 ` Stefan Monnier
2016-12-02 14:45 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-12-02 14:51 ` Stefan Monnier
2016-12-02 22:24 ` Richard Stallman
2016-12-02 23:32 ` Stefan Monnier
2016-12-03 8:28 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-12-02 23:42 ` Paul Eggert
2016-12-02 15:38 ` Daniel Colascione
2016-12-02 17:26 ` Ken Raeburn
2016-12-02 17:47 ` Paul Eggert
[not found] ` <<jwvlgvyv10x.fsf-monnier+Inbox@gnu.org>
[not found] ` <<E1cCwGF-0002PT-Kq@fencepost.gnu.org>
2016-12-03 0:07 ` Drew Adams
2016-12-03 8:25 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-12-03 20:40 ` Joost Kremers
2016-12-03 21:30 ` Richard Stallman
[not found] ` <<<jwvlgvyv10x.fsf-monnier+Inbox@gnu.org>
[not found] ` <<<E1cCwGF-0002PT-Kq@fencepost.gnu.org>
[not found] ` <<2b63d48d-a678-49c2-a3a9-4f91d8d8bdb4@default>
[not found] ` <<8337i5mnb5.fsf@gnu.org>
2016-12-03 16:14 ` Drew Adams
2016-12-03 16:42 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-12-02 14:27 ` Richard Stallman
2016-11-28 21:14 ` Paul Eggert
2016-11-28 23:01 ` Stefan Monnier
2016-11-28 23:17 ` Daniel Colascione
2016-11-29 13:06 ` Stefan Monnier
2016-11-29 21:19 ` Daniel Colascione
2016-11-29 21:35 ` Paul Eggert
2016-11-29 21:50 ` Daniel Colascione
2016-11-29 22:01 ` Paul Eggert
2016-11-30 0:37 ` Daniel Colascione
2016-11-30 7:35 ` Paul Eggert
2016-11-30 13:33 ` Stefan Monnier
2016-11-30 20:07 ` Richard Stallman
2016-11-30 20:18 ` Daniel Colascione
2016-12-03 21:32 ` Richard Stallman
2016-12-03 21:37 ` Daniel Colascione
2016-12-04 23:03 ` Richard Stallman
2016-12-03 21:54 ` Paul Eggert
2016-11-29 22:01 ` Stefan Monnier
2016-11-29 22:22 ` Philipp Stephani
2016-11-29 22:34 ` Paul Eggert
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