From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Bob Proulx Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: Updating Elisp files while Emacs is running Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2016 15:51:12 -0600 Message-ID: <20160315153516287820981@bob.proulx.com> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1458078692 32421 80.91.229.3 (15 Mar 2016 21:51:32 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2016 21:51:32 +0000 (UTC) To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Mar 15 22:51:31 2016 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1afwsD-0004Mb-2f for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Tue, 15 Mar 2016 22:51:29 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:51787 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1afwsC-00034x-Hm for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Tue, 15 Mar 2016 17:51:28 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:39457) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1afws2-00034k-AZ for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 15 Mar 2016 17:51:19 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1afwry-0002bo-SS for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 15 Mar 2016 17:51:18 -0400 Original-Received: from havoc.proulx.com ([96.88.95.61]:45637) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1afwry-0002bf-Jv for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 15 Mar 2016 17:51:14 -0400 Original-Received: from joseki.proulx.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by havoc.proulx.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1CA3AD75 for ; Tue, 15 Mar 2016 15:51:13 -0600 (MDT) Original-Received: from hysteria.proulx.com (hysteria.proulx.com [192.168.230.119]) by joseki.proulx.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 960DD21873 for ; Tue, 15 Mar 2016 15:51:12 -0600 (MDT) Original-Received: by hysteria.proulx.com (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 7450A2DC4D; Tue, 15 Mar 2016 15:51:12 -0600 (MDT) Mail-Followup-To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.24 (2015-08-30) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 3.x X-Received-From: 96.88.95.61 X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:109588 Archived-At: Stefan Monnier wrote: > > OS-level package managers such as Debian's dpkg generally replace files > > unconditionally when upgrading. But the Debian packages generally install new files when upgrading and leave the old files behind. (As I said in much more detail in my other posting.) > I think we'd be better off discussing it with concrete cases at hand. Agreed. > Let's try a few cases: > - You have Emacs-24.5 running and upgrade to Emacs-25.1. In this case, > making your Emacs process load files from the 25.1 version is risky, > because there can be (and there are) incompatibilities. You might > still want to do it, since the incompatibilities won't always bite > you, and it can be better than failing right away. > > Note that the files have to be elsewhere, because Debian lets you have > both Emacs-24.5 and Emacs-25.1 installed at the same time. The only way this case can occur is if the user removes emacs24 after having installed emacs25. But they shouldn't remove emacs24 if they are still using it. I think this is a local user error. The default actions are okay. > - You have Emacs-24.4 running and upgrade to Emacs-24.5. In this case, > there should be very few incompatibilities, so it might make sense to > try and redirect the running process to use the new 24.5 files. > > One possible solution here is for the Debian package to use > directory names like /usr/share/emacs/24/... instead of > /usr/share/emacs/24.4/... since Debian doesn't let you have both 24.4 > and 24.5 installed at the same time (contrary to the default Emacs > build's presumption). This would only come up with upgrading from one distribution release to another. At which time a reboot is needed to boot the new kernel. Because of the release schedules for both Emacs and distributions such as Debian this is an unlikely case as Emacs will almost always have rolled to a new major version. Users of the daily bleeding edge Unstable or the rolling release candidate Testing are expected to know a little more about how things work in order to administer their system. Being the daily bleeding edge bits Unstable is not for the casual user and there is often much breakage. Even the rolling testing candidate Testing goes through transitions which requires advanced knowledge of the system to unbreak it at times. Life is a compromise. The upgrades that are very well tested are the release upgrades. But users want early access to the development bits which are less well polished. There aren't enough volunteer resources to polish every package every day to release quality. You could search for CUT (Constantly Usable Testing) for a proposal to deliver it but it has not yet been implemented. > - You have ELPA package sm-c-mode-3.4 installed (and an Emacs is >... ELPA may be problematic and a place where improvements could be made but the original poster indicated they were using Debian packages. In which case ELPA wasn't the fault. Bob