From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Alan Mackenzie Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#21998: Is it time to drop ChangeLogs? Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2016 09:29:55 +0000 Message-ID: <20160307092954.GA1898__29831.1266852126$1457342906$gmane$org@acm.fritz.box> References: <56BE7E37.3090708@cs.ucla.edu> <4hd1rw1ubr.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <83vb50wxhv.fsf@gnu.org> <87y49vz4cg.fsf@acer.localhost.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1457342906 12597 80.91.229.3 (7 Mar 2016 09:28:26 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2016 09:28:26 +0000 (UTC) To: Emacs developers , Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen , 21998@debbugs.gnu.org Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Mar 07 10:28:15 2016 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1acrSW-0000lJ-K2 for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Mon, 07 Mar 2016 10:28:12 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:54611 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1acrSV-0007Hx-W3 for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Mon, 07 Mar 2016 04:28:11 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:55018) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1acrSR-0007HY-S1 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 07 Mar 2016 04:28:08 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1acrSM-0001TO-P0 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 07 Mar 2016 04:28:07 -0500 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.43]:40196) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1acrSM-0001Sx-Li for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 07 Mar 2016 04:28:02 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1acrSM-0001zE-EX for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 07 Mar 2016 04:28:02 -0500 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Alan Mackenzie Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Mon, 07 Mar 2016 09:28:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 21998 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: Original-Received: via spool by 21998-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B21998.14573428467580 (code B ref 21998); Mon, 07 Mar 2016 09:28:02 +0000 Original-Received: (at 21998) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 Mar 2016 09:27:26 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:37320 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1acrRm-0001yB-7v for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 07 Mar 2016 04:27:26 -0500 Original-Received: from mail.muc.de ([193.149.48.3]:44683) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1acrRk-0001y3-JW for 21998@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 07 Mar 2016 04:27:25 -0500 Original-Received: (qmail 79468 invoked by uid 3782); 7 Mar 2016 09:27:22 -0000 Original-Received: from acm.muc.de (p5B1466FD.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [91.20.102.253]) by colin.muc.de (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Mon, 07 Mar 2016 10:27:20 +0100 Original-Received: (qmail 1940 invoked by uid 1000); 7 Mar 2016 09:29:55 -0000 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.24 (2015-08-30) X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/1.1.12 (Macallan) X-Primary-Address: acm@muc.de X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 208.118.235.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:114531 Archived-At: Hello, John. On Sun, Mar 06, 2016 at 01:52:04PM -0800, John Wiegley wrote: > On Sun, Mar 06 2016 13:07 (-0800), John Wiegley wrote: > > I have always wanted to drop the ChangeLogs, so if the other > > developers agree, I'm all for it. Keeping ChangeLog style in the > > commit entry is not terribly useful either, .... I find that a strange thing to say. I frequently search the ChangeLog for the name of a function, to find out when it was last changed. I think the relatively rigid format of the ChangeLog/git commit messages very helpful. > > ...., since the diff output of log -p lets you know which function > > or variable is being modified. I've never missed not having that > > ChangeLog data in other projects, of any size. But that's up to the > > other developers and what makes their lives easier. The ChangeLog is easy to use. git is difficult to use (more precisely, is difficult to find out how to use). I've no idea what git log -p does, for example (though I'll be looking it up after I've posted this post :-). If we drop the ChangeLog we're cutting off its contents from those for whom discovering the appropriate git commands is too much work. > I'd like to open this up to discussion on emacs-devel, so that we hear from > our other developers. What do you all think about ChangeLogs, and their value > to you in your work on Emacs? The ChangeLog is useful, enabling things to be done that can't be done without it. If I want to see whether some change was made in Emacs 23.2, for example, I can either inspect 23.2's ChangeLog or spend several hours working out how to get the information out of git. No contest. The ChangeLog is distributed with the release, enabling our users to access its information. They typically don't have and/or don't know how to use git repositories. I'm decidedly in favour of keeping the ChangeLog. But surely an important consideration is whether the person/people who put in the work to generate it are prepared to carry on doing this. > -- > John Wiegley GPG fingerprint = 4710 CF98 AF9B 327B B80F > http://newartisans.com 60E1 46C4 BD1A 7AC1 4BA2 -- Alan Mackenzie (Nuremberg, Germany).