From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Mark Oteiza Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: [PATCH] Make display-time-mode time zone configurable Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2016 00:39:04 +0000 Message-ID: <20160303003904.GA6892@holos> References: <87fuwt8wek.fsf@udel.edu> <56C2A950.3080102@cs.ucla.edu> <20160219023723.GB15748@holos> <56C6A0CC.1080007@cs.ucla.edu> <20160219171437.GA9456@holos> <56C758C6.90702@cs.ucla.edu> <20160222004556.GA5187@holos> <56CA9C2D.50504@cs.ucla.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1456965582 2554 80.91.229.3 (3 Mar 2016 00:39:42 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2016 00:39:42 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Paul Eggert Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Mar 03 01:39:27 2016 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1abHId-0007tA-Fu for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 03 Mar 2016 01:39:27 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:59838 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1abHIc-0001Y7-Kf for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 02 Mar 2016 19:39:26 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:59417) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1abHIN-0001Xs-Qo for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 02 Mar 2016 19:39:12 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1abHIJ-0002z9-Nt for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 02 Mar 2016 19:39:11 -0500 Original-Received: from mail-yw0-x229.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4002:c05::229]:33926) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1abHIJ-0002z4-EZ for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 02 Mar 2016 19:39:07 -0500 Original-Received: by mail-yw0-x229.google.com with SMTP id h129so5516453ywb.1 for ; Wed, 02 Mar 2016 16:39:07 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=udel-edu.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=date:from:to:cc:subject:message-id:mail-followup-to:references :mime-version:content-disposition:in-reply-to:user-agent; bh=9e6tj8+yBfl4AB9NkvRK6esw9G5jHoTXwTbt50HiFvY=; b=aDJAWmcqx6bQQfUfa4PVwSXJUqy+jQ2PgilLjA+xaaqkqgzhglzDY9jNviqwGLHH9n oBhYUYxSeJHtjHFm6OPwTv1ptXa//czaLkBxB9rvMI1koInJDMKGPWELaT50hny+Q5wl EuQpXigN56NYQN+SYA/02x4UcT8I0LndyDeUi/w120IRa1MrGskwX22IUzt0bepqrv4i rq8xAr29CPXfQ2tZFJvgf04EThFEb2JC+Qjr+Sj8CAuLGF5pJcre7oxWm8hlU79zDqw3 ueiVdjSy+MK20dKgaBD/dVkba0Px+Z2599osE4G1nsG6Olxl09/ZOB61lMwtQg2JQ/Vn +kIw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:date:from:to:cc:subject:message-id :mail-followup-to:references:mime-version:content-disposition :in-reply-to:user-agent; bh=9e6tj8+yBfl4AB9NkvRK6esw9G5jHoTXwTbt50HiFvY=; b=dWhtR/j9m0dHIAilR764GLqoZDm0ai3rtCSF31DR74QUEYNR3OZRmxqFelkq6Kxl33 DjI6tRPd6IadTjm1CzFgLC8nx805zqZkCIXftp6hKxJHyUI7gNh7pGgSAH/UdHa2MI+w ORVZSlau6PA1sVQOeUvjC0P35CW1qLthwJtfnwfw7omVIl4JwhXOyXEsl2U/ZSdNpk8S iH0SJeVBNFjAoQPGOReWKdkaKYkfaZqNhUgbp83NZKBTSAHk5lp8zxipm+AQjsJJPeRZ NW/n539Lti91NVqPkBsELLH4wKuNnIQqVtwquSj8ApWpNkB/JfEH4/tBI5uCEkEsqjUm DRbQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AD7BkJJXh7cX7ABau4v4TXPahmxsbNVF1tPuLh937mneDBllkywOQIEBUP+VsqAK8imnysfe X-Received: by 10.13.200.1 with SMTP id k1mr16292014ywd.141.1456965546549; Wed, 02 Mar 2016 16:39:06 -0800 (PST) Original-Received: from holos.localdomain (pool-96-227-83-242.phlapa.fios.verizon.net. [96.227.83.242]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id l128sm30636780ywd.5.2016.03.02.16.39.04 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 02 Mar 2016 16:39:04 -0800 (PST) Original-Received: by holos.localdomain (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 2B71E6621B; Thu, 3 Mar 2016 00:39:04 +0000 (UTC) Mail-Followup-To: Paul Eggert , emacs-devel@gnu.org Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <56CA9C2D.50504@cs.ucla.edu> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.24+59 (b55c6a64a07b) (2015-08-30) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2607:f8b0:4002:c05::229 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:200878 Archived-At: On 21/02/16 at 09:27pm, Paul Eggert wrote: > Mark Oteiza wrote: > > On 19/02/16 at 10:02am, Paul Eggert wrote: > > > >On 02/19/2016 09:14 AM, Mark Oteiza wrote: > > > > > >My first thought of a use-case is simply keeping time zone in the mode > > > > > >line the same regardless of what the system time (or local time) may be, > > > > > >akin to not changing one's watch when travelling. > > > > > > > >That's easily done with (setenv "TZ" "America/Los_Angeles"), or whatever you > > > >want the mode-line's time zone to be. > > Sure, if you want to globally change the time zone in emacs and all the > > subprocesses it spawns, > > Which is the normal case. Users who want to affect Emacs but not > subprocesses can call set-time-zone-rule instead of setenv. Admittedly we > steer users away from that sort of thing, as it leads to confusion. Yes, and set-time-zone-rule's docstring tells us to use something else: format-time-string's ZONE argument being one of them. > > which is counter to the purpose of the defcustom > > in the first place--to expose convenient fine control of the displayed > > time zone in display-time-mode. > > I'm afraid we're starting to go in circles. I'm curious about why one would > want to change just the mode-line's time zone, and you're responding that > it's because one would want to change just the mode-line's time zone. :-) You are repeatedly responding to the use case with the non-solution of setting the time zone globally in Emacs. > We needn't add a control knob for every Emacs behavior, only behaviors for > which the benefit in fine-grained control outweighs the cost in confusion > and complexity. The cost/benefit tradeoff for this will differ among users. Sure, except it's implementing the same option that exists in time-stamp.el, and the option is used the same way the other display-time options (some, not all) are used. For instance, the options display-time-format display-time-mail-string display-time-use-mail-icon display-time-mail-face display-time-24hr-format display-time-day-and-date exist solely to be used in display-time-string-forms. > Expert users who need this sort of fine-grained control already have it; as > far as I can see, nonexpert users don't need it enough to justify its > complexity.