From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Alan Mackenzie Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: On language-dependent defaults for character-folding Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2016 08:57:30 +0000 Message-ID: <20160218085730.GA1769@acm.fritz.box> References: <871t8iu277.fsf@wanadoo.es> <87y4apfpr6.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <87wpq9qwia.fsf@wanadoo.es> <87k2m7qse0.fsf@wanadoo.es> <878u2mqhnl.fsf@wanadoo.es> <56C3795C.8080500@cornell.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1455785742 13528 80.91.229.3 (18 Feb 2016 08:55:42 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2016 08:55:42 +0000 (UTC) Cc: =?iso-8859-1?Q?=D3scar?= Fuentes , Per =?iso-8859-1?Q?Starb=E4ck?= , Eli Zaretskii , rms@gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Ken Brown Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Feb 18 09:55:32 2016 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1aWKN2-0006M0-BH for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 18 Feb 2016 09:55:32 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:38639 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aWKN1-00089y-Sv for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 18 Feb 2016 03:55:31 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:34809) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aWKMk-00089r-7L for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 18 Feb 2016 03:55:15 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aWKMf-0001x7-7d for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 18 Feb 2016 03:55:14 -0500 Original-Received: from mail.muc.de ([193.149.48.3]:51267) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aWKMe-0001wK-UI for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 18 Feb 2016 03:55:09 -0500 Original-Received: (qmail 1509 invoked by uid 3782); 18 Feb 2016 08:55:06 -0000 Original-Received: from acm.muc.de (p548A4834.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [84.138.72.52]) by colin.muc.de (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Thu, 18 Feb 2016 09:55:05 +0100 Original-Received: (qmail 1824 invoked by uid 1000); 18 Feb 2016 08:57:30 -0000 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <56C3795C.8080500@cornell.edu> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.24 (2015-08-30) X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/1.1.12 (Macallan) X-Primary-Address: acm@muc.de X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: FreeBSD 9.x X-Received-From: 193.149.48.3 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:200118 Archived-At: Hello, Ken. Sorry if I'm piggy-backing on your post, a bit. On Tue, Feb 16, 2016 at 02:32:44PM -0500, Ken Brown wrote: > On 2/16/2016 9:30 AM, Per Starbäck wrote: > > ### Searching for "n" and finding "ñ" in Spanish, or searching for > > "a" and finding "ä" in Swedish > > ### are just as strange as searching for "i" and finding "j" in English. > > > > It's as if many people on this list just won't believe that statement, > > which is very frustrating. > I've been following this discussion, and I haven't seen any indication > that people don't believe that statement. What I have seen is > disagreement about its importance. I've also seen several people say > that we should wait for more feedback from pretesters before deciding > what the default should be. What's the harm in that? What I see is a feature that, while important, is not yet ready for prime time. It irritates, at the very least, native speakers of Swedish and Spanish; it is now clear it needs to be configurable for the user's language. It also makes clumsy and inappropriate use of regular expressions; I think it's generally acknowledged we need to move much of the implementation from Lisp to C. In short, character folding as it currently is is really in an experimental stage. I therefore vote for it to be disabled by default. > Ken -- Alan Mackenzie (Nuremberg, Germany).