From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Alan Mackenzie Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Disappearance of hi-lock bindings from global key map. Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2016 14:47:07 +0000 Message-ID: <20160205144707.GD7727@acm.fritz.box> References: <20160205103744.GA7727@acm.fritz.box> <83bn7vv1zi.fsf@gnu.org> <20160205113635.GB7727@acm.fritz.box> <838u2zut8s.fsf@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1454683508 27201 80.91.229.3 (5 Feb 2016 14:45:08 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2016 14:45:08 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Feb 05 15:44:59 2016 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1aRhd3-0000zL-9j for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 05 Feb 2016 15:44:57 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:48720 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aRhd2-0007Zu-HT for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 05 Feb 2016 09:44:56 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:42582) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aRhcx-0007X0-FN for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 05 Feb 2016 09:44:52 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aRhcu-0008Af-Ql for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 05 Feb 2016 09:44:51 -0500 Original-Received: from mail.muc.de ([193.149.48.3]:20196) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aRhcu-0008A7-Hw for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 05 Feb 2016 09:44:48 -0500 Original-Received: (qmail 30578 invoked by uid 3782); 5 Feb 2016 14:44:46 -0000 Original-Received: from acm.muc.de (p548A4CF8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [84.138.76.248]) by colin.muc.de (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Fri, 05 Feb 2016 15:44:45 +0100 Original-Received: (qmail 9048 invoked by uid 1000); 5 Feb 2016 14:47:07 -0000 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <838u2zut8s.fsf@gnu.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.24 (2015-08-30) X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/1.1.12 (Macallan) X-Primary-Address: acm@muc.de X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: FreeBSD 9.x X-Received-From: 193.149.48.3 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:199383 Archived-At: Hello, Eli. On Fri, Feb 05, 2016 at 04:28:03PM +0200, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > > Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2016 11:36:35 +0000 > > Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org > > From: Alan Mackenzie > > > > The traditional key bindings for hi-lock commands, beginning C-x w, have > > > > disappeared from the 25.1 global key map. They have been replaced by > > > > bindings beginning M-s h. > > > That's not what I see here: when I turn on hi-lock-mode, the "C-x w" > > > bindings are shown in the output of "C-h b". > > > What exactly do you see that led you to the above conclusion? > > emacs -Q > > C-x w (intending C-x w C-h) responds "C-x w is undefined". > > On the other hand, > > M-s h C-h displays the bindings in *Help*. > I don't think you should expect the bindings of hi-lock-mode be in > effect before you turned on that mode, don't you agree? I'm not sure whether I agree or not. ;-) But I would expect them either to be in effect, or not to be in effect. At the moment, half of them are in effect before the minor mode is enabled. This is self-evidently confusing, at least for me. More exactly, hi-lock-mode had changed in my mental model from being something requiring being enabled, to a fundamental feature, always present. This false model is what caused my original misunderstanding. The question remaining is why the M-s h bindings are available without turning on the mode. Probably this isn't an important thing to resolve. Experimentation shows that M-s h r enables hi-lock-mode, making all the bindings available, whereas C-x w h remains unbound until such enablement. This is untidy. -- Alan Mackenzie (Nuremberg, Germany).