From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Mark Oteiza Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: [PATCH] Remove special requirement to disable startup message. Date: Tue, 22 Dec 2015 14:09:49 -0500 Message-ID: <20151222190949.GB5310@holos> References: <878u4qdpd4.fsf@udel.edu> <83si2xt967.fsf@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1450811417 28064 80.91.229.3 (22 Dec 2015 19:10:17 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 22 Dec 2015 19:10:17 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Dec 22 20:10:11 2015 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1aBSK3-0003Tu-Hl for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 22 Dec 2015 20:10:11 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:52621 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aBSK2-0002GO-3K for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 22 Dec 2015 14:10:10 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:39096) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aBSJo-0002GF-Ai for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 22 Dec 2015 14:09:57 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aBSJl-0000T3-39 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 22 Dec 2015 14:09:56 -0500 Original-Received: from mail-qg0-x22c.google.com ([2607:f8b0:400d:c04::22c]:33102) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aBSJk-0000Sn-T2 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 22 Dec 2015 14:09:53 -0500 Original-Received: by mail-qg0-x22c.google.com with SMTP id k90so138449783qge.0 for ; Tue, 22 Dec 2015 11:09:52 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=udel-edu.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=date:from:to:cc:subject:message-id:references:mime-version :content-type:content-disposition:content-transfer-encoding :in-reply-to:user-agent; bh=A72NODmfjoCj555Er5+Yn8Zmm82Ydhb7UqSHnODZIuA=; b=dwaQ8hnhabvktCOTTJMbnTN+wuOjy8zXj+KrCJGDAfbWEZfIgkcaUpdyNwoj8etqqw SH3qP5nK4UxX59c3Dc1wl/RWbNWyt6E7/7P8g2vd4ZndyhpuPRHW0gH/1rvnNNu0Yew2 9EQJARWQf6uarimGuGVIYaZYtYXG/nMMMh8fgcBWucueKfWgyhwC8a/BUkwQz2V3bgaF AsDveHV4wODsxd99HiNmE8Z/iJpLJMIz8ktSb7eCkq0FRyZILbrEtr6fqA9jFeA3pPvY jCnt+tqKcmSgNuvaptvxWt+g5+7vTf9KryIhziZssmkhsECm4wnbd0NuIX9pJr61WlDI RXkQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:date:from:to:cc:subject:message-id:references :mime-version:content-type:content-disposition :content-transfer-encoding:in-reply-to:user-agent; bh=A72NODmfjoCj555Er5+Yn8Zmm82Ydhb7UqSHnODZIuA=; b=fDcA6i8gPRAm369lSOpanxFS0NCC5Dr9I6IWXhxhyVnIFRWibIelKynQbbZLNJ9ynG kh0FVkbpjJcwf+eHOtXLeZEpqeYQJurZ+69fLdulo2N4B7WEoqwupUupq4JjyX9BB3jI nKugXI02vooP1bywYwKAq3RqZ72GIYavtJdhG/cD5eX8n9XxDInWr7QeORXPZTce6QzZ NOE+faY6DYHZF+5ooQmabKQ5tuBB9rCrM2kWT44ndWnVFl5MEBNm79RuwWtA5Cndnk+5 eSIA+s4Pcz4b2Ypzvg3scavekjRhM21l9igYj1uKngk66K8FJ3KTZ/j0ZlFVP74boeB1 dWKw== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQkgGbFaq5lCVwh4/aQDrNwZ9JitrpS4ctVsozeW6yCdEgOoxtGw2Sq/bP61zHEpMQ06KDRmepns4f6NnL/ZVtqAsw6Ugg== X-Received: by 10.140.96.69 with SMTP id j63mr34601566qge.63.1450811392525; Tue, 22 Dec 2015 11:09:52 -0800 (PST) Original-Received: from holos.localdomain (c-73-172-248-173.hsd1.md.comcast.net. [73.172.248.173]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id d69sm16716002qkb.45.2015.12.22.11.09.50 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 22 Dec 2015 11:09:51 -0800 (PST) Original-Received: by holos.localdomain (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 33CC8696AD; Tue, 22 Dec 2015 14:09:49 -0500 (EST) Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <83si2xt967.fsf@gnu.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.24+44 (9480a363a68a) (2015-08-30) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2607:f8b0:400d:c04::22c X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:196684 Archived-At: On 20/12/15 at 05:46pm, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > > From: Mark Oteiza > > Date: Sat, 19 Dec 2015 17:51:03 -0500 > > > > After seeing a commentary on the variable here: > > > > http://emacshorrors.com/posts/advertising-your-freedom.html > > > > and reading bug#13208 and bug#12370, I am inclined to change this > > behavior. Not only is the checking mechanism in > > `display-startup-echo-area-message' naïve and error-prone (see > > bug#13208), but it does nothing to stop the site from disabling the > > message, which is the only tangible justification (found in bug#12730) > > for the special treatment to exist. It is trivial for site-start.el, > > default.el, or init.el to contain > > > > (defun display-startup-echo-area-message () nil) > > > > or similar to disable the message for all users (example from bug#13208). > > I'm sorry, but I don't agree with the emacshorrors commentary, and I > don't think we should make disabling this startup message site-wide so > easy. The discussion in bug#12370 shows I'm not the only one. What the discussion fails to show is why this is desirable. I'm also not the only one asking why such weird treatment is present. ;; FIXME? Why does this get such weirdly extreme treatment, when the ;; more important inhibit-startup-screen does not. This was added before either bug#12370 or bug#13208 were filed; the answers in all of these discussions have been incomplete. > (Splash screen is different: it shows information useful to first-time > Emacs users, whereas the echo-area message is about the GNU system and > the software freedom.) The echo-area message simply points out the keybinding to show the splash screen. > I appreciate your efforts in producing a patch for review, but I'd > rather encourage development in the other direction: > > . make sure display-startup-echo-area-message cannot be so easily > redefined or advised (up to some practical limit) > > . allow the value to be a list of strings, each one a user name, and > prevent the echo-area message from being displayed if the user > name is one of these strings -- this should take care of the use > case in bug#12370 > > Would you like to work on these enhancements? Thanks but no thanks. I'm not interested in obfuscating the customization of Emacs, and have not yet been given any reason why such a thing is important.