From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Alan Mackenzie Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: text-quoting-style Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2015 20:13:43 +0000 Message-ID: <20150831201343.GB2280@acm.fritz.box> References: <83r3mn50rz.fsf@gnu.org> <20150828172501.GB4882@acm.fritz.box> <20150829155959.GA20484@acm.fritz.box> <20150830131613.GA2724@acm.fritz.box> <55E3F447.4050005@cs.ucla.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1441051996 16894 80.91.229.3 (31 Aug 2015 20:13:16 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2015 20:13:16 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Eli Zaretskii , Stefan Monnier , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Paul Eggert Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Aug 31 22:13:07 2015 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1ZWVRy-0001qd-EL for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 31 Aug 2015 22:13:06 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:40446 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZWVRy-0004sY-3e for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 31 Aug 2015 16:13:06 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:59382) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZWVRb-0004oy-H1 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 31 Aug 2015 16:12:44 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZWVRW-0007u9-Gj for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 31 Aug 2015 16:12:43 -0400 Original-Received: from mail.muc.de ([193.149.48.3]:60695) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZWVRW-0007sP-7m for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 31 Aug 2015 16:12:38 -0400 Original-Received: (qmail 26506 invoked by uid 3782); 31 Aug 2015 20:12:36 -0000 Original-Received: from acm.muc.de (p5B1460FA.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [91.20.96.250]) by colin.muc.de (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Mon, 31 Aug 2015 22:12:35 +0200 Original-Received: (qmail 27000 invoked by uid 1000); 31 Aug 2015 20:13:43 -0000 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <55E3F447.4050005@cs.ucla.edu> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.23 (2014-03-12) X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/1.1.12 (Macallan) X-Primary-Address: acm@muc.de X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: FreeBSD 9.x X-Received-From: 193.149.48.3 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:189358 Archived-At: Hello, Paul. On Sun, Aug 30, 2015 at 11:29:27PM -0700, Paul Eggert wrote: > Stefan Monnier wrote: > > E.g. text-quoting-style doesn't prevent the existence of curly quotes in > > Emacs, so for some interpretation of the above it's not sufficient. > I think Alan was mainly annoyed by three things in the initial implementation of > curved quotes in docstrings. > 1. They didn't display well enough on his Linux kernel console to satisfy him. > 2. It's painful for him to search for strings containing curved quotes. > 3. When he copies from *Help* and/or *Message* buffers into other buffers, he > wants the copied text to be in grave style `like this' rather than in curve > style ‘like this’. > Here's one possible alternative to ‘text-quoting-style’ to address these three > problems. > (1) is fixed by using display tables to display curved quotes in grave style. > (This has already been implemented and no change should be needed here.) No good. Having different characters displayed from what's in the buffer is a recipe for confusion, frustration, and anger. > (2) is fixed by enabling character-fold-search. This isn't the default yet, due > to a few problems with its implementation, but these should be fixable. No it isn't. character-fold-search violates the KISS principle, certainly for me personally. ASCII quotes and curly quotes are distinct characters, and if I don't mind which one a search finds, I can put [`?] into a regexp search. > (3) could be fixed by transliterating quotes when they're yanked, if the user > sets a variable to do this transliteration. I'm not sure how this could work. Problem 3 doesn't concern me personally, but it will definitely impact the generic user. > This alternative would be superior to what we have now, because it would also > work for info files (which aren't handled by Emacs's current scheme). What's wrong with `text-quoting-style'? Why are you and Stefan so keen to get rid of it? -- Alan Mackenzie (Nuremberg, Germany).