From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Alan Mackenzie Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: text-quoting-style Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2015 20:01:49 +0000 Message-ID: <20150831200149.GA2280@acm.fritz.box> References: <83r3mn50rz.fsf@gnu.org> <20150828172501.GB4882@acm.fritz.box> <20150829155959.GA20484@acm.fritz.box> <20150830131613.GA2724@acm.fritz.box> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1441051265 5529 80.91.229.3 (31 Aug 2015 20:01:05 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2015 20:01:05 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Eli Zaretskii , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Stefan Monnier Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Aug 31 22:00:56 2015 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1ZWVGB-0007Aw-Vy for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 31 Aug 2015 22:00:56 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:40178 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZWVGB-0000vM-M9 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 31 Aug 2015 16:00:55 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:53416) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZWVG3-0000vA-Uk for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 31 Aug 2015 16:00:52 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZWVG0-00012D-Nc for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 31 Aug 2015 16:00:47 -0400 Original-Received: from mail.muc.de ([193.149.48.3]:54030) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZWVG0-00011k-EY for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 31 Aug 2015 16:00:44 -0400 Original-Received: (qmail 24186 invoked by uid 3782); 31 Aug 2015 20:00:42 -0000 Original-Received: from acm.muc.de (p5B1460FA.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [91.20.96.250]) by colin.muc.de (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Mon, 31 Aug 2015 22:00:41 +0200 Original-Received: (qmail 26972 invoked by uid 1000); 31 Aug 2015 20:01:49 -0000 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.23 (2014-03-12) X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/1.1.12 (Macallan) X-Primary-Address: acm@muc.de X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: FreeBSD 9.x X-Received-From: 193.149.48.3 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:189357 Archived-At: Hello, Stefan. On Sun, Aug 30, 2015 at 09:30:53PM -0400, Stefan Monnier wrote: > > A user should have control over the handling of curly quotes in her > > Emacs. > For starters, I reject this statement, because it is much too broad. > And since enough add-advice can take care of it already, there's no need > for any config var just to satisfy this theoretical need. > IOW, please be a lot more concrete. I DO NOT WANT CURLY QUOTES IN MY EMACS!!!!! How much more concrete can I get? Are you trying to get me to swear? How many times are you going to keep asking the same question, snipping my answer, then asking me again? I'm not interested in having people tell me how stupid I am for not wanting curly quotes, I'm not interested in workarounds to work around them, I simply don't want them on my Emacs. An Emacs which forces them on me is one I will not upgrade to. > > The current and only mechanism for controlling these curly quotes is > > text-quoting-style. > "Controlling these curly quotes" is very vague. OK. Maybe you could suggest a less vague formulation. You know what text-quoting-style does, so why the complaint about "controlling these curly quotes"? > > when one needs a locale with more than ASCII, yet doesn't want curly > > quotes, > Where exactly does this hypothetical user not want curly quotes? > And why? What is/are the concrete problems these characters cause? That hypothetical user is me. And N. Jackson. And Drew. And RMS. And likely a lot of people who use Linux virtual terminals, or any of myriad other systems which aren't X Windows. And lots of X Windows users, too. The place where we don't want curly quotes is Emacs. These characters don't display properly on a typical LVT, you can't type curly quotes properly on any standard keyboard layout. There are workarounds, sure, but I'm not interested in workarounds. I want an sleek efficient editing environment, and one where I have to stop and think every time I come to a quote character, then go through the rigmarole of C-x 8 whatever, isn't in that category. It's a bit like asking what concrete problems transient-mark-mode causes. Some people just DO NOT WANT IT. FULL STOP. > E.g. text-quoting-style doesn't prevent the existence of curly quotes in > Emacs, so for some interpretation of the above it's not sufficient. > And for other interpretations the problem could be solved some other way. Maybe it's sufficient, and if not, maybe it can be made sufficient. But text-quoting-style is needed, otherwise we're just telling people like me, like N. Jackson, like Drew, and like RMS that they can go and jump in a lake. And text-quoting-style MUST be customisable, so that people can easily find it. What is the thinking behind the suggestion that text-quoting-style not be customisable? And what do you mean by "could be solved some other way"? When it comes to disabling an unwanted feature, what other way is there but a customisation variable or equivalent like M-x disable-curly-quotes? > Stefan -- Alan Mackenzie (Nuremberg, Germany).