From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Alan Mackenzie Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Upcoming loss of usability of Emacs source files and Emacs. Date: Sun, 28 Jun 2015 21:14:53 +0000 Message-ID: <20150628211453.GB5983@acm.fritz.box> References: <5580D356.4050708@cs.ucla.edu> <87si9qonxb.fsf@gnu.org> <5581C29E.1030101@yandex.ru> <558D6A3D.1070706@yandex.ru> <877fqnzpno.fsf@gnu.org> <20150628192741.GA5983@acm.fritz.box> <95D1E650-0A11-478B-A24B-BD3A4F54E09E@gmail.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1435526083 31695 80.91.229.3 (28 Jun 2015 21:14:43 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 28 Jun 2015 21:14:43 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel To: chad Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sun Jun 28 23:14:34 2015 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Z9JuM-0007oG-26 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 28 Jun 2015 23:14:34 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:39897 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Z9JuL-0006OS-Hn for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 28 Jun 2015 17:14:33 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:36303) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Z9Ju8-0006ND-OC for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 28 Jun 2015 17:14:21 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Z9Ju5-0000uE-2b for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 28 Jun 2015 17:14:20 -0400 Original-Received: from mail.muc.de ([193.149.48.3]:41533) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Z9Ju4-0000tO-PD for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 28 Jun 2015 17:14:17 -0400 Original-Received: (qmail 76268 invoked by uid 3782); 28 Jun 2015 21:14:12 -0000 Original-Received: from acm.muc.de (p579E91C8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [87.158.145.200]) by colin.muc.de (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Sun, 28 Jun 2015 23:14:12 +0200 Original-Received: (qmail 6505 invoked by uid 1000); 28 Jun 2015 21:14:53 -0000 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <95D1E650-0A11-478B-A24B-BD3A4F54E09E@gmail.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.23 (2014-03-12) X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/1.1.12 (Macallan) X-Primary-Address: acm@muc.de X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: FreeBSD 9.x X-Received-From: 193.149.48.3 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:187627 Archived-At: Hello, Chad. On Sun, Jun 28, 2015 at 12:54:17PM -0700, chad wrote: > > On 28 Jun 2015, at 12:27, Alan Mackenzie wrote: > >> For example, I've seen uses of ⸢foo⸥ for marking up source code > >> snippets. That seems pretty unambiguous (although you can never be > >> sure), .... > > Whatever those quoting characters might be, they display on my terminal > > as inverted question marks. I haven't a clue what they might be, and it > > would be a lot of work to find out. > Curious: does `C-u C-x =' not work for some reason? Yes. It doesn't work because I wasn't in Emacs. I was in vim inside mutt, composing an email. I might have been looking at the source file in less, or searching it with grep, or even manipulating it with sed or awk. Anytime you want to do something with such a file with such characters is a pain. Even inside Emacs, having to type C-u C-x = just to find out what a character is is a pain. > It works fine for me even in a glass TTY, but I wasn't actually able > to find a nearby TTY that didn't display them properly with only > several minutes effort. Yes. But that's only after knowing what it is you have to do. A typical Emacs user is going to have to start reading man pages, or searching the web, or posting on help-gnu-emacs. I'm not even convinced a typical user knows about C-x =. > ~Chad -- Alan Mackenzie (Nuremberg, Germany).