From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Alan Mackenzie Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Upcoming loss of usability of Emacs source files and Emacs. Date: Sun, 28 Jun 2015 19:27:41 +0000 Message-ID: <20150628192741.GA5983@acm.fritz.box> References: <557F3C22.4060909@cs.ucla.edu> <5580D356.4050708@cs.ucla.edu> <87si9qonxb.fsf@gnu.org> <5581C29E.1030101@yandex.ru> <558D6A3D.1070706@yandex.ru> <877fqnzpno.fsf@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1435519643 4424 80.91.229.3 (28 Jun 2015 19:27:23 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 28 Jun 2015 19:27:23 +0000 (UTC) Cc: stephen@xemacs.org, Paul Eggert , Stefan Monnier , rms@gnu.org, Dmitry Gutov To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sun Jun 28 21:27:14 2015 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Z9IES-00006D-GH for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 28 Jun 2015 21:27:12 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:39698 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Z9IER-0006jN-F4 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 28 Jun 2015 15:27:11 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:41585) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Z9IEN-0006jH-TD for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 28 Jun 2015 15:27:08 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Z9IEI-0002pF-QJ for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 28 Jun 2015 15:27:07 -0400 Original-Received: from mail.muc.de ([193.149.48.3]:21547) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Z9IEI-0002od-GM for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 28 Jun 2015 15:27:02 -0400 Original-Received: (qmail 52932 invoked by uid 3782); 28 Jun 2015 19:27:00 -0000 Original-Received: from acm.muc.de (p579E91C8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [87.158.145.200]) by colin.muc.de (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Sun, 28 Jun 2015 21:27:00 +0200 Original-Received: (qmail 6103 invoked by uid 1000); 28 Jun 2015 19:27:41 -0000 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <877fqnzpno.fsf@gnu.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.23 (2014-03-12) X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/1.1.12 (Macallan) X-Primary-Address: acm@muc.de X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: FreeBSD 9.x X-Received-From: 193.149.48.3 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:187622 Archived-At: Hello, Tassilo. On Sun, Jun 28, 2015 at 07:52:27PM +0200, Tassilo Horn wrote: > Stefan Monnier writes: > >>> Good point. Instead they use some kind of escaping convention so as > >>> to avoid ambiguity. We could try that. > >> Could you maybe retract your support for using curlies in Elisp > >> source code, then? > > I don't have a strong opinion on the markup used in the source code, > > as long as we resolve the currently existing ambiguity (and as long as > > we can render the result with symmetric quotes). > After this discussion, I'm now pretty much indifferent on these changes > and if they should apply to display only or also to actual source code. > But if the main problem with `foo' is its ambiguity, and ‘foo’ is still > ambiguous (but less so), why not use something which is even less > ambiguous? Because it might not be typeable, and it might not be displayable. > For example, I've seen uses of ⸢foo⸥ for marking up source code > snippets. That seems pretty unambiguous (although you can never be > sure), .... Whatever those quoting characters might be, they display on my terminal as inverted question marks. I haven't a clue what they might be, and it would be a lot of work to find out. > .... and as long you can type it easily and display it however suits > you best, it's as good as anything else. I agree. That pretty much means ASCII. > Bye, > Tassilo > BTW: On a related note: I don't get why *Help* buffers display quotes at > all when they are already displayed with a face that makes them > distinguishable from "normal" text and are clickable. Help buffers traditionally display verbatim the text from the source file (with the exception of explicit directives such as to display bindings). The face might not always be distinguishable from normal text (e.g. font-lock might be disabled). Anyhow, displaying the quotes doesn't do any harm. -- Alan Mackenzie (Nuremberg, Germany).