From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Alan Mackenzie Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Upcoming loss of usability of Emacs source files and Emacs. Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2015 17:20:48 +0000 Message-ID: <20150624172048.GB18124@acm.fritz.box> References: <87si9qonxb.fsf@gnu.org> <5581C29E.1030101@yandex.ru> <87r3p9fxm2.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <87k2v0fiji.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <20150619090225.GA2743@acm.fritz.box> <558436F3.8040307@cs.ucla.edu> <20150623222216.GC12232@acm.fritz.box> <5589E217.80609@cs.ucla.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1435166442 17250 80.91.229.3 (24 Jun 2015 17:20:42 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2015 17:20:42 +0000 (UTC) Cc: g@acm.muc.de, "Stephen J. Turnbull" , rms@gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Paul Eggert Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Jun 24 19:20:27 2015 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Z7oLa-0004n3-Uq for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 24 Jun 2015 19:20:27 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:52071 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Z7oLa-0007er-7D for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 24 Jun 2015 13:20:26 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:46438) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Z7oLR-0007dq-D0 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 24 Jun 2015 13:20:22 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Z7oLO-0003Kt-0k for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 24 Jun 2015 13:20:17 -0400 Original-Received: from mail.muc.de ([193.149.48.3]:64173) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Z7oLN-0003K2-QX for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 24 Jun 2015 13:20:13 -0400 Original-Received: (qmail 67033 invoked by uid 3782); 24 Jun 2015 17:20:12 -0000 Original-Received: from acm.muc.de (p548A5622.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [84.138.86.34]) by colin.muc.de (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Wed, 24 Jun 2015 19:20:10 +0200 Original-Received: (qmail 21356 invoked by uid 1000); 24 Jun 2015 17:20:48 -0000 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <5589E217.80609@cs.ucla.edu> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.23 (2014-03-12) X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/1.1.12 (Macallan) X-Primary-Address: acm@muc.de X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: FreeBSD 9.x X-Received-From: 193.149.48.3 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:187487 Archived-At: Hello, Paul. On Tue, Jun 23, 2015 at 03:47:51PM -0700, Paul Eggert wrote: > Alan Mackenzie wrote: > > You could have had a subject like "Supersede ASCII quoting convention in > > doc strings" > That would have been misleading, as the patch did not supersede ASCII > quoting. ASCII quoting still works, and is still supported. It would not have been misleading. Your aim is precisely to supersede ASCII quoting. The very moment curly quoting starts appearing in source files is when ASCII quoting will stop working properly. > >> In contrast, you installed commit 52c3946c872c8bd96508f74cdda5cbb90c664306, an > >> equally large change to user behavior, .... > > Not really. I simply made the new behaviour optional > No, your patch changed the default behavior for *Help* buffers. Paul, that's a really objectionable thing for you to do. You snipped the second half of my sentence ", setting the default to "off".", then proceded to violently agree with what you'd snipped. Must you? > The new default negatively affected the UI, in that it made *Help* > buffers sometimes quote one way, sometimes another, inconsistently. Rubbish. The default I set left quote characters untranslated, as has been the case in Emacs for several decades. That is utterly consistent. The point is, that with this new option, users can chose how they want to see quotes, something which wasn't possible in the days and weeks before. [ .... ] > All this was considerably more than just implementing an option. No. It was implementing an option, changing the default, precisely as I stated. [ .... ] -- Alan Mackenzie (Nuremberg, Germany).