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From: Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de>
To: "Stephen J. Turnbull" <stephen@xemacs.org>
Cc: Drew Adams <drew.adams@oracle.com>, emacs-devel@gnu.org
Subject: Re: Upcoming loss of usability of Emacs source files and Emacs.
Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2015 22:18:10 +0000	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20150616221810.GB3403@acm.fritz.box> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <87vbeoh3xm.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Hello, Stephen.

On Tue, Jun 16, 2015 at 09:50:29AM +0900, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:

> And Alan *is* a reactionary ....

Yes.  It's a time consuming and thankless task, but somebody's got to do
it.

> .... and a curmudgeon, ....

I take exception to this.  It's distinctly unparliamentary language, it's
an uncalled for ad hominem.  Outside of free software, you don't even
know me.  Please look up the word's meaning if you need to, and then
don't use it again unless you really do mean it.

> .... quick to oppose changes he doesn't initiate himself ....

This is untrue.

> ....and well-set in his ways.  There's nothing inherently wrong with
> those latter characteristics.  It's just that catering to Alan here
> indeed does cost others an opportunity to improve their environments,
> and offer that improvement to those in the middle.

Emacs has options.  In fact, it might be truer to say Emacs _is_ options.
We are all able enough to make new behaviours and deviations from
standard behaviours optional.  The pertinent new behaviour is not
different in this respect.

[ .... ]

> Steve

-- 
Alan Mackenzie (Nuremberg, Germany).



  reply	other threads:[~2015-06-16 22:18 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 296+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2015-06-15 14:22 Upcoming loss of usability of Emacs source files and Emacs Alan Mackenzie
2015-06-15 14:46 ` Oleh Krehel
2015-06-15 15:34   ` Tassilo Horn
2015-06-15 20:00     ` Paul Eggert
2015-06-15 20:16       ` Nicolas Petton
2015-06-15 21:04         ` Paul Eggert
2015-06-16  6:34       ` Tassilo Horn
2015-06-16 12:03         ` Robert Pluim
2015-06-16 12:35           ` Tassilo Horn
2015-06-16 13:10             ` Yuri Khan
2015-06-16 12:58         ` Andy Moreton
2015-06-16 23:53         ` Paul Eggert
2015-06-22 13:24   ` Oleh Krehel
2015-06-22 15:23     ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-06-15 15:14 ` raman
2015-06-15 15:23 ` Drew Adams
2015-06-15 15:30   ` Kaushal
2015-06-15 15:31     ` Kaushal
2015-06-15 16:33       ` Stephan Mueller
2015-06-15 15:38 ` Artur Malabarba
2015-06-15 18:28   ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-06-15 18:42   ` Nicolas Petton
2015-06-15 16:11 ` Ulrich Mueller
2015-06-15 17:18   ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2015-06-15 17:44   ` Drew Adams
2015-06-15 19:38   ` Richard Stallman
2015-06-15 16:43 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2015-06-15 17:43   ` Drew Adams
2015-06-16  0:50     ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2015-06-16 22:18       ` Alan Mackenzie [this message]
2015-06-17  6:59         ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2015-06-16 23:56       ` Paul Eggert
2015-06-15 19:38   ` Richard Stallman
2015-06-15 20:57     ` Paul Eggert
2015-06-16 15:55       ` Richard Stallman
2015-06-16 22:43         ` Emanuel Berg
2015-06-17  7:17           ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2015-06-17  1:54         ` Paul Eggert
2015-06-17  6:21           ` Tassilo Horn
2015-06-17  6:36             ` Paul Eggert
2015-06-17  8:05               ` Tassilo Horn
2015-06-18  4:07                 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2015-06-17 13:03             ` Stefan Monnier
2015-06-17 18:55               ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-06-18  4:24                 ` Stefan Monnier
2015-06-18  7:15                   ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-06-19  2:39                     ` Stefan Monnier
2015-06-19  7:41                       ` Paul Eggert
2015-06-19 11:36                       ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-06-19 14:07                         ` Stefan Monnier
2015-06-19 16:51                           ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-06-19 20:01                             ` Stefan Monnier
2015-06-28 19:17                               ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-06-28 23:31                                 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-06-26 15:05                   ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-06-26 19:26                     ` Stefan Monnier
2015-06-26 22:49                       ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-06-26 23:59                         ` Paul Eggert
2015-06-27  2:08                         ` Stefan Monnier
2015-06-28  1:10                           ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-06-28  5:00                             ` Stefan Monnier
2015-06-30 10:08                               ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-06-30 13:50                                 ` Stefan Monnier
2015-06-30 14:12                                   ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-06-30 15:32                                     ` Andreas Schwab
2015-06-30 15:47                                       ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-06-30 15:54                                     ` Paul Eggert
2015-06-30 17:54                                       ` Stefan Monnier
2015-06-30 19:44                                         ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-06-30 22:15                                         ` Paul Eggert
2015-06-30 17:41                                     ` Stefan Monnier
2015-06-30 20:14                                       ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-06-30 14:37                                 ` Paul Eggert
2015-06-30 15:23                                   ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-07-01 13:28                                   ` Andy Moreton
2015-07-01 16:56                                     ` Paul Eggert
2015-07-01 18:06                                       ` Andy Moreton
2015-06-27 12:22                       ` Richard Stallman
2015-06-27 14:46                         ` Stefan Monnier
2015-06-28  9:52                           ` Richard Stallman
2015-06-28 15:35                             ` Paul Eggert
2015-06-29  9:13                               ` Richard Stallman
2015-06-29 14:50                                 ` Paul Eggert
2015-06-29 21:52                                   ` Richard Stallman
2015-06-30  1:51                                     ` Paul Eggert
2015-06-30 16:53                                       ` Richard Stallman
2015-06-28 17:52                       ` Tassilo Horn
2015-06-28 19:21                         ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-06-28 20:28                           ` Tassilo Horn
2015-06-28 20:36                             ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-06-28 23:05                             ` Drew Adams
2015-06-29  5:59                               ` Tassilo Horn
2015-06-29 14:39                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-06-29 21:53                               ` Richard Stallman
2015-06-29 22:08                                 ` Drew Adams
2015-06-28 19:27                         ` Alan Mackenzie
2015-06-28 19:54                           ` chad
2015-06-28 21:14                             ` Alan Mackenzie
2015-06-28 21:37                           ` Tassilo Horn
2015-06-29 21:49                         ` Richard Stallman
2015-06-18  4:29                 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2015-06-18  7:19                   ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-06-18 12:02                   ` Richard Stallman
2015-06-19  4:06                     ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2015-06-19  9:02                       ` Alan Mackenzie
2015-06-19 15:36                         ` Paul Eggert
2015-06-23 22:22                           ` Alan Mackenzie
2015-06-23 22:47                             ` Paul Eggert
2015-06-24 17:20                               ` Alan Mackenzie
2015-06-25 22:24                                 ` Paul Eggert
2015-06-26 13:57                                   ` Richard Stallman
2015-06-22  1:44                         ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2015-06-22  8:42                           ` Elias Mårtenson
2015-06-23 16:01                             ` Paul Eggert
2015-06-22 13:57                           ` Richard Stallman
2015-06-22 15:33                             ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2015-06-23 12:38                               ` Richard Stallman
2015-06-23 17:06                                 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2015-06-23 18:07                                   ` Alan Mackenzie
2015-06-24 18:24                                     ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2015-06-22 15:31                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-06-22 18:32                             ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2015-06-22 18:59                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-06-23  3:16                                 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2015-06-23 11:40                                   ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-06-23 13:02                                     ` Nikolai Weibull
2015-06-23 13:22                                       ` Oleh Krehel
2015-06-23 18:22                                         ` Nikolai Weibull
2015-06-23 19:29                                           ` Alan Mackenzie
2015-06-23 19:53                                             ` Nikolai Weibull
2015-06-23 14:03                                       ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-06-23 18:39                                         ` Nikolai Weibull
2015-06-23 19:04                                           ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-06-23 19:12                                             ` Nikolai Weibull
2015-06-23 22:22                                             ` Richard Stallman
2015-06-23 15:43                                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-06-23 18:17                                         ` Nikolai Weibull
2015-06-23 18:36                                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-06-23 19:05                                             ` Nikolai Weibull
2015-06-23 19:21                                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-06-23 19:51                                                 ` Nikolai Weibull
2015-06-23 20:29                                                 ` Marcin Borkowski
2015-06-23 20:42                                                   ` Matthew Carter
     [not found]                                                   ` <E1Z7UpW-0007r3-2O@fencepost.gnu.org>
2015-06-23 20:55                                                     ` Marcin Borkowski
2015-06-29  9:13                                                       ` Richard Stallman
2015-06-23 13:34                                     ` Stefan Monnier
2015-06-23 14:31                                       ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-06-23 22:22                                       ` Richard Stallman
2015-06-23 22:51                                         ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-06-24 14:55                                           ` Richard Stallman
2015-06-24 15:44                                             ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-06-25  7:49                                               ` Richard Stallman
2015-06-25 15:45                                                 ` Stefan Monnier
2015-06-25 22:49                                                   ` Richard Stallman
2015-06-26  1:15                                                     ` Stefan Monnier
2015-06-26 13:57                                                       ` Richard Stallman
2015-06-26 19:22                                                         ` Stefan Monnier
2015-06-27 12:20                                                         ` Richard Stallman
2015-06-27 15:36                                                           ` Paul Eggert
2015-06-28  9:51                                                             ` Richard Stallman
2015-06-26 13:58                                                       ` Richard Stallman
2015-06-23 15:36                                     ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2015-06-23 15:42                                       ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-06-24 15:13                                         ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2015-06-24 15:49                                           ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-06-24 18:55                                             ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2015-06-24 19:19                                               ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-06-25  1:28                                                 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2015-06-23 12:41                                   ` Richard Stallman
2015-06-23 18:50                                     ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2015-06-23 14:56                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-06-23 19:57                                     ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2015-06-24 14:34                                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-06-17 14:41             ` Richard Stallman
2015-06-17 14:58               ` Nicolas Petton
2015-06-17 16:03                 ` Drew Adams
2015-06-17 18:30                   ` Marcin Borkowski
2015-06-17 18:41                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-06-17 19:28                       ` Steinar Bang
2015-06-18  4:22                         ` Stefan Monnier
2015-06-18  4:52                     ` ASCII-folded search [was: Re: Upcoming loss of usability ...] Stephen J. Turnbull
2015-06-18  5:27                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-06-18  7:48                         ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2015-06-18  8:33                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-06-18  8:16                         ` Artur Malabarba
2015-06-18  8:46                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-06-18  9:50                             ` Artur Malabarba
2015-06-18 10:13                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-06-22 20:49                                 ` Artur Malabarba
2015-06-22 21:02                                   ` Artur Malabarba
2015-06-22 21:03                                     ` Artur Malabarba
2015-06-22 22:24                                     ` Juri Linkov
2015-06-22 23:28                                       ` Artur Malabarba
2015-06-23 22:49                                         ` Juri Linkov
2015-06-24  8:03                                           ` Artur Malabarba
2015-06-24 14:47                                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-06-24 17:41                                               ` Artur Malabarba
2015-06-24 18:56                                               ` Stefan Monnier
2015-06-24 21:44                                             ` Juri Linkov
2015-06-24 21:57                                               ` Juri Linkov
2015-06-24 21:59                                               ` Artur Malabarba
2015-06-24 22:22                                                 ` Juri Linkov
2015-06-25  1:56                                                   ` Artur Malabarba
2015-06-25 17:49                                                     ` Kaushal
2015-06-25 22:27                                                       ` Juri Linkov
2015-06-26  9:32                                                         ` Artur Malabarba
2015-06-26 12:13                                                           ` Kaushal
2015-06-26 15:19                                                             ` Drew Adams
2015-06-26 17:20                                                               ` Artur Malabarba
2015-06-26 18:42                                                                 ` Drew Adams
2015-06-26 18:42                                                                 ` Drew Adams
2015-06-26 19:08                                                                   ` Artur Malabarba
2015-06-26 20:34                                                                     ` Drew Adams
2015-06-26 21:56                                                                       ` Artur Malabarba
2015-06-26 22:54                                                                         ` Drew Adams
2015-06-27  8:07                                                                           ` Artur Malabarba
2015-06-27  8:17                                                                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-06-26 17:14                                                             ` Artur Malabarba
2015-06-27 22:48                                                             ` Juri Linkov
2015-06-26 15:11                                                           ` Drew Adams
2015-06-23 16:46                                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-06-23 17:20                                       ` Artur Malabarba
2015-06-23 17:33                                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-06-23 16:43                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-06-23 17:19                                     ` Artur Malabarba
2015-06-23 17:31                                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-06-18  5:27                     ` Upcoming loss of usability of Emacs source files and Emacs Ulrich Mueller
2015-06-18  5:46                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-06-18  7:08                         ` Ulrich Mueller
2015-06-18  7:41                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-06-18 16:44                             ` Ulrich Mueller
2015-06-18 17:23                         ` Steinar Bang
2015-06-18 17:32                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-06-18 18:13                             ` Steinar Bang
2015-06-18 18:26                               ` Marcin Borkowski
2015-06-18 20:18                                 ` Steinar Bang
2015-06-18 21:27                                   ` Steinar Bang
2015-06-18 18:32                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-06-18 20:16                                 ` Steinar Bang
2015-06-19  4:24                                   ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2015-06-18  4:49                   ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2015-06-17 16:18               ` Robert Pluim
2015-06-18 12:00                 ` Richard Stallman
2015-06-18 20:11                   ` Robert Pluim
2015-06-18  7:05               ` Paul Eggert
2015-06-18  7:44                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-06-19  9:03                 ` Richard Stallman
2015-06-20  6:02                   ` Paul Eggert
2015-06-20 17:37                     ` Richard Stallman
2015-06-20 19:43                       ` Paul Eggert
2015-06-21 14:16                         ` Richard Stallman
2015-06-21 19:50                           ` Paul Eggert
2015-06-22 13:55                             ` Richard Stallman
2015-06-22 15:26                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-06-23 12:37                                 ` Richard Stallman
2015-06-23 13:08                                   ` Nikolai Weibull
2015-06-23 15:37                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-06-23 22:21                                     ` Richard Stallman
2015-06-24  2:48                                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-06-24 14:56                                         ` Richard Stallman
2015-06-24 15:11                                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-06-24 19:09                                             ` Paul Eggert
2015-06-25  7:49                                               ` Richard Stallman
2015-06-25 14:27                                                 ` Paul Eggert
2015-06-24  9:29                                       ` Oleh Krehel
2015-06-24 14:54                                     ` Richard Stallman
2015-06-23 16:25                               ` Paul Eggert
2015-06-23 17:53                                 ` Wolfgang Jenkner
2015-06-23 22:54                                   ` Paul Eggert
2015-06-23 22:21                                 ` Richard Stallman
2015-06-22 22:22                     ` Juri Linkov
2015-06-15 16:52 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-06-17  7:16   ` Daniel Colascione
2015-06-17  8:15     ` Tassilo Horn
2015-06-17  8:40       ` Alan Mackenzie
2015-06-17  9:02         ` Yuri Khan
2015-06-17 11:20           ` Tassilo Horn
2015-06-17 12:27             ` Artur Malabarba
2015-06-19 21:35 ` Paul Nathan
     [not found] <<20150615142237.GA3517@acm.fritz.box>
     [not found] ` <<87ioamz8if.fsf@petton.fr>
     [not found]   ` <<32013464-2300-46c6-ba46-4a3c36bfee5d@default>
     [not found]     ` <<87twu62nnt.fsf@mbork.pl>
     [not found]       ` <<87oakdfwim.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
     [not found]         ` <<83wpz1lh7c.fsf@gnu.org>
     [not found]           ` <<CAAdUY-K0QVtMLG3v+EmmjXDCW6DWwJiSsV0giHX9rJ9EFDHL7Q@mail.gmail.com>
     [not found]             ` <<83oakdl7yj.fsf@gnu.org>
     [not found]               ` <<CAAdUY-LLRyb_ruWMTQMjZCSFRJD7d-sLJD7sfj41nnhWhghCBw@mail.gmail.com>
     [not found]                 ` <<83ioall3x5.fsf@gnu.org>
     [not found]                   ` <<CAAdUY-JYmKsadzH0jy4fLK_eeC9V6wuX7UReKJ5m1FX9ZMzkrw@mail.gmail.com>
     [not found]                     ` <<CAAdUY-JSZfnjBo8R7hKQswoqOfo024D0Dc7BmTP_4at9TWv-TA@mail.gmail.com>
     [not found]                       ` <<87h9pzxtyi.fsf@mail.linkov.net>
     [not found]                         ` <<CAAdUY-JO+wLX+EyHF7nv5Hii8ahYUk0YHMTrTOXAsuwFGoaAoA@mail.gmail.com>
     [not found]                           ` <<87k2uudoqr.fsf@mail.linkov.net>
     [not found]                             ` <<CAAdUY-LyfyZU3KfM1mvP5tjmeH=uQQM3B2+uDabv3mQT3Dm9JQ@mail.gmail.com>
     [not found]                               ` <<87616c94g4.fsf@mail.linkov.net>
     [not found]                                 ` <<CAAdUY-KR+fcPzxaw7KgQ9pz38CeC8mRMWSZnY3_A2QRWGp8RCQ@mail.gmail.com>
     [not found]                                   ` <<87h9pw6922.fsf@mail.linkov.net>
     [not found]                                     ` <<CAAdUY-KoyQbteW_i-TW48azUA-phoUzt4of9be_tSoiKd+7Cww@mail.gmail.com>
     [not found]                                       ` <<CAFyQvY1iCMaF_EGOALyE-Gzy+nEy7r8O-pJ1SnWB=TvDuYk8nw@mail.gmail.com>
     [not found]                                         ` <<87a8vn75r7.fsf@mail.linkov.net>
     [not found]                                           ` <<CAAdUY-+CO3sSaz71qMsHJuET1J6Yd1tiosOKM+dC7VU=fCPQbQ@mail.gmail.com>
     [not found]                                             ` <<CAFyQvY2SZgZ+eJqHCi3Fgi1+fCkv5_m44=-rcVPi0aRwf3WuQg@mail.gmail.com>
     [not found]                                               ` <<0f72b0bd-0170-414c-b926-0b836a973d67@default>
     [not found]                                                 ` <<CAAdUY-+4C3X1w+vvBDEJ+B07Ta33=z6b3RZ61RW1ex9C4uV5Ww@mail.gmail.com>
     [not found]                                                   ` <<9b42a5bc-48e3-4111-b37d-280867903527@default>
     [not found]                                                     ` <<CAAdUY-+wvuO7YYEWvj+G7ZkrKA-hE9n=QaqZvvpzyJCyDC_KFw@mail.gmail.com>
     [not found]                                                       ` <<12de813f-cffa-4231-95a4-5b9ee2709123@default>
     [not found]                                                         ` <<CAAdUY-KSjx=H8Mscii7Q6FNBO2UA4_RQw=9GjSPUYNrkKhSSgQ@mail.gmail.com>
     [not found]                                                           ` <<a6bb8f58-1e27-47cc-8f77-766b8e8ff9b4@default>
     [not found]                                                             ` <<834mltd0qk.fsf@gnu.org>
2015-06-27 15:34                                                               ` ASCII-folded search [was: Re: Upcoming loss of usability ...] Drew Adams
2015-06-27 16:25                                                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-06-27 16:46                                                                   ` Artur Malabarba
2015-06-27 18:02                                                                     ` Drew Adams
     [not found] ` <<87y4jkhqh5.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
     [not found]   ` <<E1Z4aDD-0005QL-Iq@fencepost.gnu.org>
     [not found]     ` <<557F3C22.4060909@cs.ucla.edu>
     [not found]       ` <<E1Z4tDG-0003St-DZ@fencepost.gnu.org>
     [not found]         ` <<5580D356.4050708@cs.ucla.edu>
     [not found]           ` <<87si9qonxb.fsf@gnu.org>
     [not found]             ` <<jwv8ubifq2g.fsf-monnier+emacs@gnu.org>
     [not found]               ` <<5581C29E.1030101@yandex.ru>
     [not found]                 ` <<jwvbngdbq6r.fsf-monnier+emacs@gnu.org>
     [not found]                   ` <<558D6A3D.1070706@yandex.ru>
     [not found]                     ` <<jwv381etgqc.fsf-monnier+emacs@gnu.org>
     [not found]                       ` <<877fqnzpno.fsf@gnu.org>
     [not found]                         ` <<5590493C.8000007@yandex.ru>
     [not found]                           ` <<87381bzife.fsf@gnu.org>
     [not found]                             ` <<75f2fe0f-f15e-4af8-b9ae-0ddc9231c9ab@default>
     [not found]                               ` <<83a8vi60ke.fsf@gnu.org>
2015-06-29 14:57                                 ` Upcoming loss of usability of Emacs source files and Emacs Drew Adams
2015-06-29 15:23                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-06-29 16:14                                     ` Drew Adams
2015-06-29 16:26                                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-06-29 21:52                                     ` Richard Stallman
2015-06-30  2:42                                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-06-30 16:53                                         ` Richard Stallman
2015-06-30 17:04                                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-06-30 22:20                                             ` Paul Eggert
2015-07-01 16:19                                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-07-01 19:33                                                 ` Paul Eggert
2015-07-01 19:53                                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
     [not found]                                 ` <<fc4de8bc-c7a6-4471-85cc-eaa9fcb34f7f@default>
     [not found]                                   ` <<83vbe64jyt.fsf@gnu.org>
     [not found]                                     ` <<800419d5-94b3-4325-a29f-e42678049f96@default>
     [not found]                                       ` <<83mvzi4h12.fsf@gnu.org>
2015-06-29 16:37                                         ` Drew Adams

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