From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: tomas@tuxteam.de Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: Emacs Book Vs Emacs Manuals Date: Wed, 13 May 2015 14:32:15 +0200 Message-ID: <20150513123215.GA18233@tuxteam.de> References: <837fsfm7gq.fsf@gnu.org> <991d9b3f-e2f4-4977-9e78-99d39b04ede5@default> <53fc8fd4-2a3e-4937-bc17-6bf6d5bfff5a@googlegroups.com> <0d865b33-6751-4958-b61b-e0f2b3298a20@googlegroups.com> <83egmllmf0.fsf@gnu.org> <20150513074735.GB7600@tuxteam.de> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; x-action=pgp-signed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1431520356 31557 80.91.229.3 (13 May 2015 12:32:36 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 13 May 2015 12:32:36 +0000 (UTC) Cc: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org To: Filipp Gunbin Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed May 13 14:32:34 2015 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1YsVpy-0002U8-AZ for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Wed, 13 May 2015 14:32:34 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:48736 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YsVpx-0007oI-Nt for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Wed, 13 May 2015 08:32:33 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:43964) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YsVpm-0007oD-1w for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 13 May 2015 08:32:23 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YsVpk-0002Zq-TU for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 13 May 2015 08:32:21 -0400 Original-Received: from mail.tuxteam.de ([5.199.139.25]:40026 helo=tomasium.tuxteam.de) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YsVph-0002XD-Pp; Wed, 13 May 2015 08:32:17 -0400 Original-Received: from tomas by tomasium.tuxteam.de with local (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1YsVpf-0004qY-Rf; Wed, 13 May 2015 14:32:15 +0200 In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 3.x X-Received-From: 5.199.139.25 X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:104442 Archived-At: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Wed, May 13, 2015 at 03:10:02PM +0300, Filipp Gunbin wrote: > On 13/05/2015 09:47 +0200, tomas@tuxteam.de wrote: > > > Most user nowadays will be happy to use the (these days) conventional > > cursor keys for movement [...] > When using arrow keys for movement there's a danger that Emacs will turn > into one big inconvenience. This is obviously in the eye (rather the finger) of the beholder. I wasn't advocating to remove the traditional movement keys in Emacs. I was rather questioning that they deserve such a prominent place in a beginner's tutorial (although a link, with a short explanation of their advantages seems to make a lot of sense in any case). > Rather, large amount of different keys to remember could lead to > thinking of a suitable typing scheme and that's imho is an enjoyable > thing. Different finger memories, different models. The key bindings of the arrow keys (with and without modifiers) might make more sense to some -- especially when you have an "exotic" keyboard layout: cf. the other current thread in this list. At least, the arrow keys stay invariant. > When I realized that right-hand modifiers can be used as well as > left-hand, it made my experience much more pleasant. Yep, and with some binding magic one can re-use those funny (nowadays nearly ubiquitous) "Windows" keys. But this is all advanced material, where our topic here is "Tutorial(s) for beginners". I'm not for hiding that information -- but thinking about a short, wide path to start with, showing hints to all sorts of (narrower) side paths, to let people "grow" at their own pace. regards - -- tomás -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.12 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAlVTRE8ACgkQBcgs9XrR2kZQ1gCdFgzQU00xdnNduHdgAo3qSLih MqYAn3qJCFnP/d95VYT56QeBpTT8CERr =s+oB -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----