From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Eric S. Raymond" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: More metaproblem Date: Sat, 6 Dec 2014 06:35:57 -0500 Organization: Eric Conspiracy Secret Labs Message-ID: <20141206113557.GF19750@thyrsus.com> References: <83egsf3yci.fsf@gnu.org> <87iohq6nvn.fsf@ktab.red-bean.com> <83mw722eit.fsf@gnu.org> <87egse56hb.fsf@ktab.red-bean.com> <87oarhzt87.fsf@ktab.red-bean.com> <20141205222416.GH7784@thyrsus.com> <834mt93d4k.fsf@gnu.org> <20141206045851.GA14890@thyrsus.com> <83sigt1ax1.fsf@gnu.org> Reply-To: esr@thyrsus.com NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1417865820 15843 80.91.229.3 (6 Dec 2014 11:37:00 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 6 Dec 2014 11:37:00 +0000 (UTC) Cc: kfogel@red-bean.com, eggert@cs.ucla.edu, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Dec 06 12:36:54 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1XxDfR-000193-Vq for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 06 Dec 2014 12:36:54 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:54111 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XxDfR-0006RV-EX for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 06 Dec 2014 06:36:53 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:50835) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XxDfB-0006RO-6E for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 06 Dec 2014 06:36:41 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XxDf6-0005kW-UJ for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 06 Dec 2014 06:36:37 -0500 Original-Received: from static-71-162-243-5.phlapa.fios.verizon.net ([71.162.243.5]:32996 helo=snark.thyrsus.com) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XxDf1-0005hl-VF; Sat, 06 Dec 2014 06:36:28 -0500 Original-Received: by snark.thyrsus.com (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 699E5382B07; Sat, 6 Dec 2014 06:35:57 -0500 (EST) Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <83sigt1ax1.fsf@gnu.org> X-Eric-Conspiracy: There is no conspiracy User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 71.162.243.5 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:179154 Archived-At: Eli Zaretskii : > I challenge you to ask and then post the results here, including > similar results for other Free Software projects. Wow. You are truly a *master* of subtle obstructionism. The second clause in that sentence was a work of art, leaving you wiggle room to disregard any survey numbers I might to bring back on grounds of insufficient breadth of sample. And camouflaging this maneuver as an appeal to scientific objectivity - genius, sheer genius! Why, if I were a more naive person, I might have immediately gone beavering off to #emacs, collected several hundred expressions of frustration, and brought them back here only to have them high-handedly dismissed. That general tactic of "I will disregard you until you put in an amount of work I have pre-defined to be effectively impossible", yes. An old favorite on this list, a hardy perennial. Very effective for resisting any kind of innovation. This is how Emacs dies. Not with a bang, but with a whimper. -- Eric S. Raymond