From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: esr@snark.thyrsus.com (Eric S. Raymond) Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Request for policy ruling - dropping Arch support fom VC? Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2014 18:12:17 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <20141205231217.B9D6F383525@snark.thyrsus.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1417821201 14709 80.91.229.3 (5 Dec 2014 23:13:21 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2014 23:13:21 +0000 (UTC) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Dec 06 00:13:16 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Xx23j-0005tS-Nz for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 06 Dec 2014 00:13:11 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:52831 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Xx23j-0003I0-90 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 05 Dec 2014 18:13:11 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:46797) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Xx23S-0003Ho-0a for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 05 Dec 2014 18:12:58 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Xx23M-0005mT-8s for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 05 Dec 2014 18:12:53 -0500 Original-Received: from static-71-162-243-5.phlapa.fios.verizon.net ([71.162.243.5]:59037 helo=snark.thyrsus.com) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Xx23M-0005m2-4Y for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 05 Dec 2014 18:12:48 -0500 Original-Received: by snark.thyrsus.com (Postfix, from userid 1000) id B9D6F383525; Fri, 5 Dec 2014 18:12:17 -0500 (EST) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 71.162.243.5 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:179065 Archived-At: I don't know what the project policy is on supporting modes for software that has been end-of-lifed. Now I need to know. Michael Albinus has been working on a test framework for VC. In the process, we've discovered that the Arch register method is busted. I'm pretty sure I didn't do this with my recent changes to VC, that the arch backend had bitrotted due to changes in Arch. Arch has been end-of-lifed by its author. I think I have better things to do than chase a backward-compatibility problem in a mode for a VCS that (unlike RCS or SCCS) probably hasn't seen live use in a decade. Therefore I'd like to solve this problem the simple way, by dropping Arch support. What is policy on this sort of thing? -- Eric S. Raymond The right of the citizens to keep and bear arms has justly been considered as the palladium of the liberties of a republic; since it offers a strong moral check against usurpation and arbitrary power of rulers; and will generally, even if these are successful in the first instance, enable the people to resist and triumph over them." -- Supreme Court Justice Joseph Story of the John Marshall Court From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Paul Eggert Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Request for policy ruling - dropping Arch support fom VC? Date: Fri, 05 Dec 2014 18:07:32 -0800 Organization: UCLA Computer Science Department Message-ID: <548264E4.9090908@cs.ucla.edu> References: <20141205231217.B9D6F383525@snark.thyrsus.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1417831690 32434 80.91.229.3 (6 Dec 2014 02:08:10 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 6 Dec 2014 02:08:10 +0000 (UTC) To: "Eric S. Raymond" , emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Dec 06 03:08:03 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Xx4mx-0003kx-G3 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 06 Dec 2014 03:08:03 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:53090 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Xx4mw-0007ek-Tl for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 05 Dec 2014 21:08:02 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:44468) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Xx4mc-0007eP-JR for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 05 Dec 2014 21:07:50 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Xx4mV-0001xz-4N for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 05 Dec 2014 21:07:42 -0500 Original-Received: from smtp.cs.ucla.edu ([131.179.128.62]:44013) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Xx4mU-0001xI-V9 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 05 Dec 2014 21:07:35 -0500 Original-Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by smtp.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 997B7A6016D; Fri, 5 Dec 2014 18:07:33 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at smtp.cs.ucla.edu Original-Received: from smtp.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (smtp.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id cTNUzfw5TM1A; Fri, 5 Dec 2014 18:07:33 -0800 (PST) Original-Received: from [192.168.1.9] (pool-71-177-17-123.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net [71.177.17.123]) by smtp.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 26DAFA60168; Fri, 5 Dec 2014 18:07:33 -0800 (PST) User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.3.0 In-Reply-To: <20141205231217.B9D6F383525@snark.thyrsus.com> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6.x X-Received-From: 131.179.128.62 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:179076 Archived-At: Eric S. Raymond wrote: > What is policy on this sort of thing? A good rule of thumb is that if external software is no longer supported by its own community, then Emacs needn't worry about it. That's why Emacs dropped support for IRIX, for example -- SGI retired IRIX about a year ago. So if Arch has been retired, we can remove support for it from Emacs. From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Stefan Monnier Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Request for policy ruling - dropping Arch support fom VC? Date: Fri, 05 Dec 2014 23:53:02 -0500 Message-ID: References: <20141205231217.B9D6F383525@snark.thyrsus.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1417841624 5952 80.91.229.3 (6 Dec 2014 04:53:44 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 6 Dec 2014 04:53:44 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: esr@snark.thyrsus.com (Eric S. Raymond) Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Dec 06 05:53:37 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Xx7N9-0000gD-5d for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 06 Dec 2014 05:53:35 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:53352 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Xx7N8-0007sQ-Hh for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 05 Dec 2014 23:53:34 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:38089) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Xx7Ml-0007sI-7Q for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 05 Dec 2014 23:53:18 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Xx7Md-0000S7-Ny for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 05 Dec 2014 23:53:11 -0500 Original-Received: from ironport2-out.teksavvy.com ([206.248.154.181]:61670) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Xx7Md-0000S1-Kp for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 05 Dec 2014 23:53:03 -0500 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AjsPAOwQflRMCqTq/2dsb2JhbABbgweDYIVaxR0EAgKBJBcBAQEBAQF8hAMBAQMBViMFCws0EhQYDVCIHgnWWQEBAQcBAQEBHpBvB4RIBYsBkjGMdIUJgXiEGSGCdwEBAQ X-IPAS-Result: AjsPAOwQflRMCqTq/2dsb2JhbABbgweDYIVaxR0EAgKBJBcBAQEBAQF8hAMBAQMBViMFCws0EhQYDVCIHgnWWQEBAQcBAQEBHpBvB4RIBYsBkjGMdIUJgXiEGSGCdwEBAQ X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.07,502,1413259200"; d="scan'208";a="99692417" Original-Received: from 76-10-164-234.dsl.teksavvy.com (HELO ceviche.home) ([76.10.164.234]) by ironport2-out.teksavvy.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA; 05 Dec 2014 23:53:02 -0500 Original-Received: by ceviche.home (Postfix, from userid 20848) id 0D19B66159; Fri, 5 Dec 2014 23:53:02 -0500 (EST) In-Reply-To: <20141205231217.B9D6F383525@snark.thyrsus.com> (Eric S. Raymond's message of "Fri, 5 Dec 2014 18:12:17 -0500 (EST)") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/25.0.50 (gnu/linux) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 206.248.154.181 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:179087 Archived-At: > I don't know what the project policy is on supporting modes for > software that has been end-of-lifed. Now I need to know. As usual the answer is "it depends". I was planning to move vc-arch.el to the lisp/obsolete subdirectory, but as for dropping support outright, I'm not completely sure because I don't know if some project might still be using Arch or not. > Michael Albinus has been working on a test framework for VC. In the > process, we've discovered that the Arch register method is busted. > I'm pretty sure I didn't do this with my recent changes to VC, that > the arch backend had bitrotted due to changes in Arch. It should be pretty easy to check if Emacs-24.4's vc-arch.el works right. I suggest to keep vc-arch.el on life-support with minimal efforts: only update the code "in the obvious way", just so that if someone were to come and complain that Arch doesn't work any more, it should be reasonably easy to fix it. Stefan From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Eric S. Raymond" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Request for policy ruling - dropping Arch support fom VC? Date: Sat, 6 Dec 2014 01:05:48 -0500 Organization: Eric Conspiracy Secret Labs Message-ID: <20141206060548.GB14890@thyrsus.com> References: <20141205231217.B9D6F383525@snark.thyrsus.com> Reply-To: esr@thyrsus.com NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1417845997 30308 80.91.229.3 (6 Dec 2014 06:06:37 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 6 Dec 2014 06:06:37 +0000 (UTC) Cc: "Eric S. Raymond" , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Stefan Monnier Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Dec 06 07:06:31 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Xx8Vj-0005eK-8l for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 06 Dec 2014 07:06:31 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:53464 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Xx8Vi-00086Q-Gp for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 06 Dec 2014 01:06:30 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:47658) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Xx8Vb-00085P-CY for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 06 Dec 2014 01:06:27 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Xx8VX-0003Zk-1s for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 06 Dec 2014 01:06:23 -0500 Original-Received: from static-71-162-243-5.phlapa.fios.verizon.net ([71.162.243.5]:60242 helo=snark.thyrsus.com) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Xx8VW-0003Zb-S7 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 06 Dec 2014 01:06:18 -0500 Original-Received: by snark.thyrsus.com (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 7307A382BAB; Sat, 6 Dec 2014 01:05:48 -0500 (EST) Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: X-Eric-Conspiracy: There is no conspiracy User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 71.162.243.5 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:179095 Archived-At: Stefan Monnier : > It should be pretty easy to check if Emacs-24.4's vc-arch.el works right. Not as easy as you might think. Ubuntu doesn't package Arch, which is a pretty good clue that nobody has cared about it for quite a while. The last source snapshot was made nine years ago. I downloaded it and looked; the build insteructions are rudimentary and not reassuring. Here's the entire diff since I started reworking VC. There are no logic changes, only only one change touches the register method, and that just removes an unused argument. diff --git a/lisp/vc/vc-arch.el b/lisp/vc/vc-arch.el index 53b8e35..d1344f2 100644 --- a/lisp/vc/vc-arch.el +++ b/lisp/vc/vc-arch.el @@ -231,8 +231,7 @@ Only the value `maybe' can be trusted :-(." "Return the administrative directory of FILE." (expand-file-name "{arch}" (vc-arch-root file))) -(defun vc-arch-register (files &optional rev _comment) - (if rev (error "Explicit initial revision not supported for Arch")) +(defun vc-arch-register (files &optional _comment) (dolist (file files) (let ((tagmet (vc-arch-tagging-method file))) (if (and (memq tagmet '(tagline implicit)) comment-start) @@ -262,10 +261,6 @@ Only the value `maybe' can be trusted :-(." ;; Strip the terminating newline. (buffer-substring (point-min) (1- (point-max))))))))) -(defun vc-arch-workfile-unchanged-p (_file) - "Stub: arch workfiles are always considered to be in a changed state," - nil) - (defun vc-arch-state (file) ;; There's no checkout operation and merging is not done from VC ;; so the only operation that's state dependent that VC supports is commit @@ -315,10 +310,11 @@ Only the value `maybe' can be trusted :-(." 'up-to-date 'edited))))))))) -;; -dir-status called from vc-dir, which loads vc, which loads vc-dispatcher. +;; dir-status-files called from vc-dir, which loads vc, +;; which loads vc-dispatcher. (declare-function vc-exec-after "vc-dispatcher" (code)) -(defun vc-arch-dir-status (dir callback) +(defun vc-arch-dir-status-files (dir _files callback) "Run 'tla inventory' for DIR and pass results to CALLBACK. CALLBACK expects (ENTRIES &optional MORE-TO-COME); see `vc-dir-refresh'." @@ -452,7 +448,7 @@ CALLBACK expects (ENTRIES &optional MORE-TO-COME); see (vc-arch-command nil 0 files "commit" "-s" summary "-L" comment "--" (vc-switches 'Arch 'checkin)))) -(defun vc-arch-diff (files &optional oldvers newvers buffer) +(defun vc-arch-diff (files &optional async oldvers newvers buffer) "Get a difference report using Arch between two versions of FILES." ;; FIXME: This implementation only works for singleton filesets. To make ;; it work for more cases, we have to either call `file-diffs' manually on @@ -469,7 +465,6 @@ CALLBACK expects (ENTRIES &optional MORE-TO-COME); see (if newvers (error "Diffing specific revisions not implemented") (let* (process-file-side-effects - (async (not vc-disable-async-diff)) ;; Run the command from the root dir. (default-directory (vc-arch-root file)) (status @@ -496,8 +491,6 @@ CALLBACK expects (ENTRIES &optional MORE-TO-COME); see "A wrapper around `vc-do-command' for use in vc-arch.el." (apply 'vc-do-command (or buffer "*vc*") okstatus vc-arch-program file flags)) -(defun vc-arch-init-revision () nil) - ;;; Completion of versions and revisions. (defun vc-arch--version-completion-table (root string) > I suggest to keep vc-arch.el on life-support with minimal efforts: only > update the code "in the obvious way", just so that if someone were to > come and complain that Arch doesn't work any more, it should be > reasonably easy to fix it. That's doable. I think I've finished making incompatible API changes, so we can put this code on ice knowing that fixing it (if we ever have to) will be pretty trivial. Let's do what you were considering and move the arch back end to the obsolete directory, also taking Arch out of the supported-backends list. That way the VC test code won't trip over it, but it will be handy if someone shows up wanting Arch support. -- Eric S. Raymond From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Ulrich Mueller Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Request for policy ruling - dropping Arch support fom VC? Date: Sat, 6 Dec 2014 10:16:40 +0100 Message-ID: <21634.51576.596441.953931@a1i15.kph.uni-mainz.de> References: <20141205231217.B9D6F383525@snark.thyrsus.com> <20141206060548.GB14890@thyrsus.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1417857450 24504 80.91.229.3 (6 Dec 2014 09:17:30 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 6 Dec 2014 09:17:30 +0000 (UTC) Cc: "Eric S. Raymond" , Stefan Monnier , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: esr@thyrsus.com Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Dec 06 10:17:23 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1XxBUQ-0003hu-8E for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 06 Dec 2014 10:17:22 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:53840 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XxBUP-0001OG-Nw for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 06 Dec 2014 04:17:21 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:56428) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XxBU6-0001O8-UC for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 06 Dec 2014 04:17:10 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XxBTz-0001Tk-E9 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 06 Dec 2014 04:17:02 -0500 Original-Received: from a1www.kph.uni-mainz.de ([134.93.134.1]:37427) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XxBTz-0001RN-5A for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 06 Dec 2014 04:16:55 -0500 Original-Received: from a1i15.kph.uni-mainz.de (a1i15.kph.uni-mainz.de [134.93.134.92]) by a1www.kph.uni-mainz.de (8.14.9/8.14.7) with ESMTP id sB69Ggfu000481; Sat, 6 Dec 2014 10:16:42 +0100 Original-Received: from a1i15.kph.uni-mainz.de (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by a1i15.kph.uni-mainz.de (8.14.8/8.14.2) with ESMTP id sB69GgF0019345; Sat, 6 Dec 2014 10:16:42 +0100 Original-Received: (from ulm@localhost) by a1i15.kph.uni-mainz.de (8.14.8/8.14.8/Submit) id sB69GeVh019341; Sat, 6 Dec 2014 10:16:40 +0100 In-Reply-To: <20141206060548.GB14890@thyrsus.com> X-Mailer: VM 8.2.0b under 24.3.1 (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 134.93.134.1 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:179119 Archived-At: >>>>> On Sat, 6 Dec 2014, Eric S Raymond wrote: > Ubuntu doesn't package Arch, which is a pretty good clue that nobody > has cared about it for quite a while. The last source snapshot was > made nine years ago. I downloaded it and looked; the build > insteructions are rudimentary and not reassuring. Huh? For tla-1.3.5, the build process simply consists of (out-of-tree) "configure" and "make". Gentoo removed the package from the main repository in 2008, but we still have an ebuild for it in the sunrise overlay. Ulrich From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Eric S. Raymond" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Request for policy ruling - dropping Arch support fom VC? Date: Sat, 6 Dec 2014 05:07:20 -0500 Organization: Eric Conspiracy Secret Labs Message-ID: <20141206100720.GA19750@thyrsus.com> References: <20141205231217.B9D6F383525@snark.thyrsus.com> <20141206060548.GB14890@thyrsus.com> <21634.51576.596441.953931@a1i15.kph.uni-mainz.de> Reply-To: esr@thyrsus.com NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1417860492 2127 80.91.229.3 (6 Dec 2014 10:08:12 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 6 Dec 2014 10:08:12 +0000 (UTC) Cc: "Eric S. Raymond" , Stefan Monnier , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Ulrich Mueller Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Dec 06 11:08:06 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1XxCHT-0000sb-P0 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 06 Dec 2014 11:08:03 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:53918 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XxCHT-0000Xk-9H for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 06 Dec 2014 05:08:03 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:35642) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XxCHM-0000Xb-KO for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 06 Dec 2014 05:08:01 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XxCHH-0001nI-O1 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 06 Dec 2014 05:07:56 -0500 Original-Received: from static-71-162-243-5.phlapa.fios.verizon.net ([71.162.243.5]:60962 helo=snark.thyrsus.com) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XxCHH-0001ml-Jv for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 06 Dec 2014 05:07:51 -0500 Original-Received: by snark.thyrsus.com (Postfix, from userid 1000) id F31DA382B9F; Sat, 6 Dec 2014 05:07:20 -0500 (EST) Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <21634.51576.596441.953931@a1i15.kph.uni-mainz.de> X-Eric-Conspiracy: There is no conspiracy User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 71.162.243.5 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:179128 Archived-At: Ulrich Mueller : > Huh? For tla-1.3.5, the build process simply consists of (out-of-tree) > "configure" and "make". In the top-level directory or src? It wasn't clear. -- Eric S. Raymond From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Ulrich Mueller Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Request for policy ruling - dropping Arch support fom VC? Date: Sat, 6 Dec 2014 14:40:01 +0100 Message-ID: <21635.1841.167404.786878@a1i15.kph.uni-mainz.de> References: <20141205231217.B9D6F383525@snark.thyrsus.com> <20141206060548.GB14890@thyrsus.com> <21634.51576.596441.953931@a1i15.kph.uni-mainz.de> <20141206100720.GA19750@thyrsus.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1417873232 24256 80.91.229.3 (6 Dec 2014 13:40:32 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 6 Dec 2014 13:40:32 +0000 (UTC) Cc: "Eric S. Raymond" , Stefan Monnier , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: esr@thyrsus.com Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Dec 06 14:40:25 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1XxFax-0005sC-Q9 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 06 Dec 2014 14:40:23 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:54507 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XxFax-0000PP-E4 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 06 Dec 2014 08:40:23 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:47547) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XxFan-0000PF-Jx for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 06 Dec 2014 08:40:21 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XxFag-0004ts-5O for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 06 Dec 2014 08:40:13 -0500 Original-Received: from a1www.kph.uni-mainz.de ([134.93.134.1]:38873) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XxFaf-0004pf-T1 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 06 Dec 2014 08:40:06 -0500 Original-Received: from a1i15.kph.uni-mainz.de (a1i15.kph.uni-mainz.de [134.93.134.92]) by a1www.kph.uni-mainz.de (8.14.9/8.14.7) with ESMTP id sB6De4Ss010670; Sat, 6 Dec 2014 14:40:04 +0100 Original-Received: from a1i15.kph.uni-mainz.de (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by a1i15.kph.uni-mainz.de (8.14.8/8.14.2) with ESMTP id sB6De3xV022076; Sat, 6 Dec 2014 14:40:03 +0100 Original-Received: (from ulm@localhost) by a1i15.kph.uni-mainz.de (8.14.8/8.14.8/Submit) id sB6De10O022059; Sat, 6 Dec 2014 14:40:01 +0100 In-Reply-To: <20141206100720.GA19750@thyrsus.com> X-Mailer: VM 8.2.0b under 24.3.1 (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 134.93.134.1 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:179177 Archived-At: >>>>> On Sat, 6 Dec 2014, Eric S Raymond wrote: >> Huh? For tla-1.3.5, the build process simply consists of >> (out-of-tree) "configure" and "make". > In the top-level directory or src? It wasn't clear. In src. The Gentoo ebuild basically does the following: mkdir src/=build cd src/=build ../configure make From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Eric S. Raymond" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Request for policy ruling - dropping Arch support fom VC? Date: Sat, 6 Dec 2014 08:51:17 -0500 Organization: Eric Conspiracy Secret Labs Message-ID: <20141206135117.GA23719@thyrsus.com> References: <20141205231217.B9D6F383525@snark.thyrsus.com> <20141206060548.GB14890@thyrsus.com> <21634.51576.596441.953931@a1i15.kph.uni-mainz.de> <20141206100720.GA19750@thyrsus.com> <21635.1841.167404.786878@a1i15.kph.uni-mainz.de> Reply-To: esr@thyrsus.com NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1417873898 1146 80.91.229.3 (6 Dec 2014 13:51:38 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 6 Dec 2014 13:51:38 +0000 (UTC) Cc: "Eric S. Raymond" , Stefan Monnier , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Ulrich Mueller Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Dec 06 14:51:32 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1XxFlj-0002g6-2e for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 06 Dec 2014 14:51:31 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:54524 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XxFli-0001un-Nm for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 06 Dec 2014 08:51:30 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:49296) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XxFlb-0001td-L9 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 06 Dec 2014 08:51:28 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XxFlW-0000jO-5n for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 06 Dec 2014 08:51:23 -0500 Original-Received: from static-71-162-243-5.phlapa.fios.verizon.net ([71.162.243.5]:33529 helo=snark.thyrsus.com) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XxFlW-0000jI-2U for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 06 Dec 2014 08:51:18 -0500 Original-Received: by snark.thyrsus.com (Postfix, from userid 1000) id C33B5382BF7; Sat, 6 Dec 2014 08:51:17 -0500 (EST) Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <21635.1841.167404.786878@a1i15.kph.uni-mainz.de> X-Eric-Conspiracy: There is no conspiracy User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 71.162.243.5 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:179178 Archived-At: Ulrich Mueller : > >>>>> On Sat, 6 Dec 2014, Eric S Raymond wrote: > > >> Huh? For tla-1.3.5, the build process simply consists of > >> (out-of-tree) "configure" and "make". > > > In the top-level directory or src? It wasn't clear. > > In src. The Gentoo ebuild basically does the following: > > mkdir src/=build > cd src/=build > ../configure > make OK, I'll try that. -- Eric S. Raymond From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Stefan Monnier Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Request for policy ruling - dropping Arch support fom VC? Date: Sat, 06 Dec 2014 17:50:43 -0500 Message-ID: References: <20141205231217.B9D6F383525@snark.thyrsus.com> <20141206060548.GB14890@thyrsus.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1417906283 20515 80.91.229.3 (6 Dec 2014 22:51:23 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 6 Dec 2014 22:51:23 +0000 (UTC) Cc: "Eric S. Raymond" , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: "Eric S. Raymond" Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Dec 06 23:51:14 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1XxOC1-0000Uq-O3 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 06 Dec 2014 23:51:13 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:55830 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XxOC1-0007ix-Cv for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 06 Dec 2014 17:51:13 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:40120) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XxOBg-0007iN-Ks for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 06 Dec 2014 17:51:00 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XxOBZ-0000jo-18 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 06 Dec 2014 17:50:52 -0500 Original-Received: from ironport2-out.teksavvy.com ([206.248.154.181]:60980) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XxOBY-0000jk-QI for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 06 Dec 2014 17:50:44 -0500 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AjsPAOwQflRMCqTq/2dsb2JhbABbgweDYIVaxR0EAgKBJBcBAQEBAQF8hAMBAQMBViMFCws0EhQYDSSISgnWWQEBAQcBAQEBHpBvB4RIBYsBg2GgTYF4hBkhgncBAQE X-IPAS-Result: AjsPAOwQflRMCqTq/2dsb2JhbABbgweDYIVaxR0EAgKBJBcBAQEBAQF8hAMBAQMBViMFCws0EhQYDSSISgnWWQEBAQcBAQEBHpBvB4RIBYsBg2GgTYF4hBkhgncBAQE X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.07,502,1413259200"; d="scan'208";a="99730053" Original-Received: from 76-10-164-234.dsl.teksavvy.com (HELO pastel.home) ([76.10.164.234]) by ironport2-out.teksavvy.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA; 06 Dec 2014 17:50:44 -0500 Original-Received: by pastel.home (Postfix, from userid 20848) id CBB31986F; Sat, 6 Dec 2014 17:50:43 -0500 (EST) In-Reply-To: <20141206060548.GB14890@thyrsus.com> (Eric S. Raymond's message of "Sat, 6 Dec 2014 01:05:48 -0500") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/25.0.50 (gnu/linux) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 206.248.154.181 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:179221 Archived-At: >> It should be pretty easy to check if Emacs-24.4's vc-arch.el works right. > Not as easy as you might think. Ubuntu doesn't package Arch, which is > a pretty good clue that nobody has cared about it for quite a while. It's still in Debian. > The last source snapshot was made nine years ago. I downloaded it and looked; I know, but AFAIK "it just works" and has *very* few dependencies, so it never needed new releases to adapt to new versions of its dependencies. In any case it's not terribly important to do tests, I was suggesting doing it if you want to figure out when things broke, assuming installing tla was easy (which it is under Debian, even on armhf). > That's doable. I think I've finished making incompatible API changes, > so we can put this code on ice knowing that fixing it (if we ever have > to) will be pretty trivial. Great. > Let's do what you were considering and move the arch back end to the > obsolete directory, also taking Arch out of the supported-backends list. > That way the VC test code won't trip over it, but it will be handy if > someone shows up wanting Arch support. Fine, Stefan