From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Eric S. Raymond" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: More metaproblem Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2014 17:24:16 -0500 Organization: Eric Conspiracy Secret Labs Message-ID: <20141205222416.GH7784@thyrsus.com> References: <20141203211447.GB15111@thyrsus.com> <871toge5zw.fsf@floss.red-bean.com> <83388v6hsq.fsf@gnu.org> <87egsftgd5.fsf@ktab.red-bean.com> <83egsf3yci.fsf@gnu.org> <87iohq6nvn.fsf@ktab.red-bean.com> <83mw722eit.fsf@gnu.org> <87egse56hb.fsf@ktab.red-bean.com> <87oarhzt87.fsf@ktab.red-bean.com> Reply-To: esr@thyrsus.com NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1417818282 30673 80.91.229.3 (5 Dec 2014 22:24:42 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2014 22:24:42 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Eli Zaretskii , eggert@cs.ucla.edu, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Karl Fogel Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Dec 05 23:24:36 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Xx1Ih-00062q-R1 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 05 Dec 2014 23:24:35 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:52708 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Xx1Ih-0003XW-Cm for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 05 Dec 2014 17:24:35 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:33743) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Xx1IZ-0003Oi-0e for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 05 Dec 2014 17:24:31 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Xx1IU-0002zx-Ny for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 05 Dec 2014 17:24:26 -0500 Original-Received: from static-71-162-243-5.phlapa.fios.verizon.net ([71.162.243.5]:58862 helo=snark.thyrsus.com) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Xx1IP-0002xv-DW; Fri, 05 Dec 2014 17:24:17 -0500 Original-Received: by snark.thyrsus.com (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 04B9B382B91; Fri, 5 Dec 2014 17:24:16 -0500 (EST) Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <87oarhzt87.fsf@ktab.red-bean.com> X-Eric-Conspiracy: There is no conspiracy User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 71.162.243.5 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:179044 Archived-At: Karl Fogel : > That's going to be a good investment of my time, after the initial > rejection of the idea? There's another version of this that's common here. It's "We will not consider anything new unless you commit to doing *all* the hard work yourself, up front, and also a whole bunch of related shitwork that we haven't been able to find anyone to take on." It's basically a way to day "Fuck off" while sounding pseudo-responsible. It doesn't fool anyone, though. The underlying message of reflexive rejection of change is clear. Heaven forfend anyone should offer to ... cooperate. Spread the load. When was the last time we heard anyone saying in reaction to a big new proposal "That's a great idea you just had. I'll do *this* piece." And yet, we wonder why there are 500+ regulars on #emacs who don't dare set foot in here. Well, why should they? It's a hostile work environment. -- Eric S. Raymond