From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Eric S. Raymond" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: More metaproblem Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2014 16:14:47 -0500 Organization: Eric Conspiracy Secret Labs Message-ID: <20141203211447.GB15111@thyrsus.com> References: <20141203142859.24393.98673@vcs.savannah.gnu.org> <20141203192721.GE12748@thyrsus.com> <547F6774.50700@cs.ucla.edu> <838uio5vjw.fsf@gnu.org> Reply-To: esr@thyrsus.com NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1417641323 10185 80.91.229.3 (3 Dec 2014 21:15:23 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2014 21:15:23 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Paul Eggert , monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Dec 03 22:15:15 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1XwHGV-0000WH-Ja for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 03 Dec 2014 22:15:15 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:43398 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XwHGU-0006Xk-OL for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 03 Dec 2014 16:15:14 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:42607) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XwHGD-0006XV-Ig for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 03 Dec 2014 16:15:01 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XwHG9-0003B9-98 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 03 Dec 2014 16:14:57 -0500 Original-Received: from static-71-162-243-5.phlapa.fios.verizon.net ([71.162.243.5]:59282 helo=snark.thyrsus.com) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XwHG4-00039O-Hl; Wed, 03 Dec 2014 16:14:48 -0500 Original-Received: by snark.thyrsus.com (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 04F99382F23; Wed, 3 Dec 2014 16:14:47 -0500 (EST) Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <838uio5vjw.fsf@gnu.org> X-Eric-Conspiracy: There is no conspiracy User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 71.162.243.5 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:178777 Archived-At: Eli Zaretskii : > > On 12/03/2014 11:27 AM, Eric S. Raymond wrote: > > > You want it even when the ChangeLog part is a trivial > > > repetition of the summary line? > > > > It's not needed for one-liners. > > I agree. > > > For commit > > e820f16c06a5a6be4bc87910b349c7c3c6eca0f4, for example, your ChangeLog > > entry was "* files.el (file-tree-walk): Lisp translation of ANSI > > ftw(3).", and that one-liner should have been the git commit message, too. > > Yes, but please lose the "*" part, it just wastes precious real estate. > > > In vc, abolish the dir-status method. > > > > * vc.el, all backends: API simplification: Abolish dir-status. > > It's replaced by dir-status-files. > > Likewise here: no need to keep the asterisks. I realize you both mean well, but have you actually thought about the effect of adding more edge cases to commenting rules that are already rather fussy? (And undocumented.) The overhead from all these picky requirements adds to big ones like "you must execute a copyright assignment" in ways I don't think people here understand. What looks reasonable and easy to you, from long practice, is a wilderness of brambles to outsiders. Once I've finished cleaning up and extending VC mode I'm going to clean out the dusty attic in /etc (RMS and I discussed this and basically agreed on a plan about 11 month ago). If you don't see how that's relevant, stop and think until you get it. For Emacs to attract new developers, its code and the culture need to be discoverable. As part of this, practice rules need to be *clear*, *documented*, and *minimal*. Right now they fail all three tests. -- Eric S. Raymond