From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Bob Proulx Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: Feeling lost without tabs Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2014 17:33:47 -0600 Message-ID: <20140721171224360731426@bob.proulx.com> References: <874myab9vm.fsf@debian.uxu> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1405985657 23724 80.91.229.3 (21 Jul 2014 23:34:17 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2014 23:34:17 +0000 (UTC) To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Jul 22 01:34:12 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1X9N5u-0004zg-2h for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Tue, 22 Jul 2014 01:34:10 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:36806 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1X9N5t-00048z-Ff for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Mon, 21 Jul 2014 19:34:09 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:54073) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1X9N5e-00047x-1b for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 21 Jul 2014 19:33:58 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1X9N5Z-00066U-2p for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 21 Jul 2014 19:33:53 -0400 Original-Received: from joseki.proulx.com ([216.17.153.58]:41334) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1X9N5Y-00066Q-Ns for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 21 Jul 2014 19:33:49 -0400 Original-Received: from hysteria.proulx.com (hysteria.proulx.com [192.168.230.119]) by joseki.proulx.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 94BBF21232 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2014 17:33:47 -0600 (MDT) Original-Received: by hysteria.proulx.com (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 7DFA42DC39; Mon, 21 Jul 2014 17:33:47 -0600 (MDT) Mail-Followup-To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <874myab9vm.fsf@debian.uxu> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.23 (2014-03-12) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 3.x X-Received-From: 216.17.153.58 X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:98884 Archived-At: Emanuel Berg wrote: > Yeah? :) Then I have the coolest suggestion for you - > why don't you have six keyboard - all in different > colors and with no marks on them - at to vertical > levels - on front, and one on each side? If anyone does this please post a photo! :-) > While I love shortcuts, actually, my dream would be to > never use them but to have a complete 1-1 > physical/hardware-functional/software interface. Can > you imagine how cool it would be to never, ever stumble > on a shortcut? Yes. But at some point the brain can become overloaded. I have some ham radios that have had feature creep to the point that they are no longer possible to be operated without the manual open beside them. That is bad. Was it left function, right function, then action button? Or was it push and hold left function 1s until beep, then action button? Or right function hold 1s, left function, then action? I have truly awful "computerized" radio like that. Others with less features are more usable because sometimes you don't have the manual in front of you. > How do fighter pilots do it? Then it must be super-fast, > and no "fumbling" can ever be allowed? Actually no. I am a general aviation pilot (not a fighter pilot, I fly taildragges) but the concept for fighters is HOTAS. Hands On Throttle-And-Stick. Put the switches you need on either the throttle or stick so they can be reached without removing hands from the flight controls. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HOTAS Mostly when you do need to manipulate a switch not on either throttle or stick you keep one hand on the control stick, leave the throttle in the friction lock to hold it in place, and use the throttle hand to flip switches. And especially with radios there is always a lot of fumbling. > I remember a flight simulator for the Mac, F/A-18 Hornet. It took up > almost the entire keyboard. Because the keyboard is a general purpose interface for human text it doesn't really make a good match to an airplane cockpit. Meaning that it will be more complicated because there is a mapping from one to another. The keys are binary. Most flight controls are analog. And therefore all are a compromise. Note that many modern airliners have a full keyboard in the cockpit. It is useful for entering flight plans and other data specific details. It folds up out of the way when not in active use. But in that role it is dedicated again to the task and not mapped to flight controls as in the games. > It was considered very realistic (at the time) but I take it reality > is even more complex. More and less. When you are centered in the cockpit you can turn your head and look around and everything makes sense around you. But in a game display this is difficult to achieve. Plus the real aircraft includes feeling the movement in your seat which also gives you clues. Perhaps it is more like flying an RC aircraft. > They say programmers often take to flying when they get > rich... (E.g., Woz, speaking of the accursed Apple world.) When I get rich I will let you know. Until then flying is one of the things keeping me poor. But I wouldn't give up flying for money. It is the other way around. Bob