From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Dale Snell Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: one key-press to comment out lines of code? Date: Fri, 2 May 2014 10:42:16 -0700 Organization: Organization? Me? ROFL!! Message-ID: <20140502104216.28082af5@zothique> References: <87fvku94ms.fsf@skimble.plus.com> <87y4ymiqfg.fsf@nl106-137-194.student.uu.se> <87a9b1iogu.fsf@nl106-137-194.student.uu.se> <87k3a5ukv4.fsf@nl106-137-194.student.uu.se> Reply-To: ddsnell@frontier.com NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1399052581 10287 80.91.229.3 (2 May 2014 17:43:01 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 2 May 2014 17:43:01 +0000 (UTC) To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri May 02 19:42:55 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1WgHU5-0004FU-SJ for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Fri, 02 May 2014 19:42:54 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:45659 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1WgHU5-0001lA-Hm for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Fri, 02 May 2014 13:42:53 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:46202) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1WgHTp-0001l2-2j for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 02 May 2014 13:42:42 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1WgHTj-0000bj-AN for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 02 May 2014 13:42:37 -0400 Original-Received: from filter02.roch.ny.frontiernet.net ([66.133.183.227]:51745) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1WgHTj-0000bb-4g for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 02 May 2014 13:42:31 -0400 Original-Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by filter02.roch.ny.frontiernet.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5AD9A38823 for ; Fri, 2 May 2014 17:42:30 +0000 (UTC) Original-Received: from relay04.roch.ny.frontiernet.net ([66.133.182.167]) by localhost (filter02.roch.ny.frontiernet.net [66.133.183.227]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id zwmkFn5akU2l for ; Fri, 2 May 2014 17:42:18 +0000 (UTC) X-Originating-IP: [50.39.121.206] X-Previous-IP: 50.39.121.206 Original-Received: from zothique (50-39-121-206.bvtn.or.frontiernet.net [50.39.121.206]) by relay04.roch.ny.frontiernet.net (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 24FB117CEA for ; Fri, 2 May 2014 17:42:15 +0000 (UTC) In-Reply-To: <87k3a5ukv4.fsf@nl106-137-194.student.uu.se> X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.9.3 (GTK+ 2.24.22; x86_64-redhat-linux-gnu) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6.x X-Received-From: 66.133.183.227 X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:97537 Archived-At: On Fri, 02 May 2014 01:42:23 +0200 Emanuel Berg wrote: > Dale Snell writes: > > > Heh, yeah, the old terminals had keys wandering all > > over the place. Every manufacturer had a different > > idea of where things like escape, |, \, `, ~, and so > > on belonged. Sometimes they would change their minds > > from one model to the next. As I recall, the DEC > > VT-101 that I learned Emacs on had the escape key > > where the /~ usually is now. The `/~ key was between > > the =/+ and backspace keys, and the |/\ key was to > > the right of the return key. (An awful place. One > > had to be careful if one used those characters.) > > Cool. I found the old exchange: > > YT: > > ... was the Escape key placed anywhere else than it is > on today's keyboards? The reason I ask is - well, just > try hitting a couple of familiar shortcuts, but instead > of Meta, use Escape. I think it would take a master at > the accordion to be productive using that. > > Bob Proulx: > > Yes. The escape key has been located in other > locations. Here is an example. On the HP HIL keyboard > it was left of the left shift key. (Also note that > control was left of the A.) A good keyboard layout for > the touch typist. Everything was relatively close to > the home row. > > http://www.hpmuseum.net/display_item.php?hw=575 > > Mostly escape has been located in the upper left > "somewhere". Although not always left of the 1 key. > > >> But perhaps you re-routed Esc for Caps Lock? > > > > No, I swapped control for caps-lock, putting the > > control key next to the A key, where it's much more > > accessible. > > Yeah, I've heard a lot of people doing that. I actually > think left control is kind of close and good for the > left little finger. Caps-lock is better, yes, but is it > better enough to make it worthwhile to re-learn? Don't > know. For me, the position of the control key next to the A key is far more convenient than the default in the lower-left-hand corner. Besides, my fingers are trained for that position. Every time I use an un-modified keyboard, it drives me buggy. Plus, that lower-left corner is far enough from the home row that I have to take my left hand off the keys. > [...] But there > should be one million things to do with the caps-lock > key that is more sensible than changing the case... One idea I've been tossing around is to turn the caps lock into a "super" or "hyper" modifier key. Then change the right-hand control key into the opposite. Those modifiers aren't used much, if at all, but Emacs will respond to them. That would give me a lot more key-chords I could tie to functions that are normally un-bound. > > (The most inconvenient position, imnsho, is the right > > control key. Next to the left arrow key. Ugh.) > > Agreed. I actually don't have it. To the right of the > space bar, I have "Alt Graph" (which is Meta as well, > it seems), then a key with a solid diamond (seems to be > escape), and then "Compose Key" which doesn't seem to > do anything. (I actually have the compose key somewhere > else.) But: why are those keys so inconvenient? What's > stopping from using them as the control and Meta on the > left side? They are just one centimeter too far to the > right and that does it. Ooh, I *liked* the old Sun keyboards. It's been a long time since I used a Sun, but I think the diamond key was a sort of "command" key, like on an Apple Mac. (When I was using a Sun, it was a Sun Three, with dual 68020 CPUs running at 20MHz. And we thought it was great! Ah, how times have changed. :-) ) But yes, I can understand your frustration with the keyboard layout. The only thing I can suggest is re-mapping the keys to be what you want, where you want. As much a physically possible, at any rate. --Dale -- "Don't only practice your Art, but force your way into its Secrets, for it and Knowledge can raise Men to the Divine." -- Ludwig van Beethoven