From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Alan Mackenzie Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: electric-indent-mode: abolition of `newline' function is not the Right Thing. Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2013 18:58:09 +0000 Message-ID: <20131016185809.GC3125@acm.acm> References: <20131013101325.GA2621@acm.acm> <20131013140931.GC2621@acm.acm> <20131013172841.GA2498@acm.acm> <525D8946.4070406@gmx.at> <20131016171240.GA3125@acm.acm> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1381950427 32361 80.91.229.3 (16 Oct 2013 19:07:07 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2013 19:07:07 +0000 (UTC) Cc: martin rudalics , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Stefan Monnier Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Oct 16 21:07:10 2013 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1VWWR0-0000c7-P6 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 16 Oct 2013 21:07:06 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:48999 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VWWR0-0002lx-7V for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 16 Oct 2013 15:07:06 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:52476) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VWWQq-0002lS-FP for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 16 Oct 2013 15:07:03 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VWWQg-00076o-NE for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 16 Oct 2013 15:06:56 -0400 Original-Received: from colin.muc.de ([193.149.48.1]:26764 helo=mail.muc.de) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VWWQg-00076b-EV for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 16 Oct 2013 15:06:46 -0400 Original-Received: (qmail 65127 invoked by uid 3782); 16 Oct 2013 19:00:04 -0000 Original-Received: from acm.muc.de (pD951A2A4.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [217.81.162.164]) by colin.muc.de (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Wed, 16 Oct 2013 21:00:03 +0200 Original-Received: (qmail 3744 invoked by uid 1000); 16 Oct 2013 18:58:09 -0000 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/1.1.12 (Macallan) X-Primary-Address: acm@muc.de X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: FreeBSD 8.x X-Received-From: 193.149.48.1 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:164249 Archived-At: Hello, Stefan. On Wed, Oct 16, 2013 at 01:59:07PM -0400, Stefan Monnier wrote: > > With respect, that is not the topic of this thread. That topic is that > > with electric-indent-mode enabled, there is now no command, also no > > elisp function which has the traditional functionality of `newline'. > Quick, without looking at the source code of newline: what does > `newline' do that (insert "\n") or C-q C-j doesn't do? The answer you're not looking for is "It inserts a newline, whilst doing lots of Right Things on the previous line that I don't need to worry about too much.", but it's my preferred answer. Answering you literally, I think newline invokes filling, abbreviation expansion and possibly other things, but (insert "\n") and C-q C-j don't. > > That is a significant loss to Emacs. > I don't know what that is supposed to mean. For one thing, it would prevent somebody using a mode with {e-i-m using \n} and retaining the classical difference betweeen and C-j. For another thing, it will stop lots of Emacs Lisp from working. > Stefan -- Alan Mackenzie (Nuremberg, Germany).