Re: I wish list-buffers used my current window when it listed my buffers

[Bob Proulx <bob@proulx.com>]

Rustom Mody wrote:
> :-) I remember ducking the debris from the explosions around
> visual-line-mode :-)

I hate visual line mode.  I find it very frustrating to use.  I always
turn it off.  I can see where some people might want it.  But at the
same time since I mostly deal with line and column oriented editing I
find it really terrible and frustrating.

> - A comprehensive list of changes is drawn up without scrimping on
> - 'incompatible' including terminology (window/frame vs pane/window
> - etc)

I don't actually care as much about how it is documented.  Names of
things and so forth.  I would be okay with various documented names.
It is hard to change something that is documented one way for 30 years
in many places to something incompatibly different.  I know that the
documentation was the original topic point and just saying I don't
actually feel as strongly about it.  It is the other topic drift that
I feel much more concerned about.

> - 24 is declared as stable and supported for the next 7 years, ie
> - minor bugs will be fixed, major functionality will not be added

And if someone were to suggest the same thing of emacs 23?  Or 22?  Or
21?  Would you feel the same thing then?  Because two years from now
when emacs 27 is out (intentional exaggeration) I am sure people will
say that emacs 24 is so old.  The newest 27 is the only thing to use.
Emacs 24 is new now and everyone claims it is awesome.  But I
guarentee you that in two years the new Emacs XY.Z will heralded as
awesome and Emacs 24 will be disparaged as being terrible.  It is all
a matter of perspective.

> Personally it does not matter too much to me whether I press C-x or
> C-w to 'cut' but it matters a great deal to my students/their
> employers etc, so that more and more I am finding emacs a
> hard-sell. Hopefully you will consider that there are a
> thousand-fold guys like me 'at the fringes' who would give great
> deal to have emacs a little more mainstream/less weird

But think about those of us to whom it matters in the other direction.
I have been pressing C-w to cut for many years.  And C-x for extended
commands just makes sense.  You are claiming that it is holding it
back because new users don't want to use it.  But previous users of it
will want that model of operation and destroying it for them is just
as bad in reverse.  The model of operation of the editor is a major
thing.  Changing the operating model is so big that it really is a
dividing line between one editor and another.  If Emacs changes into
Word then it won't be Emacs anymore but will be a different editor.

This is the classic problem.  "I love you.  You are perfect.  Now
change."  Grr...  Instead if you want an editor with a different
operating model then I am all for it!  I think you should create an
editor with this different operating model.  Go for it!  It could be
very popular and very mainstream.  That would be awesome!  You would
like it.  I am sure that a very large number of people would like it.
And best of all it wouldn't hurt people who want the Emacs operating
model.  Please don't destroy one tool in order to convert it into
another different tool.

You can't please everyone all of the time.  Especially not with the
same tools.  It is okay to have a choice of different tools.  Then
people can use the one that fits them the best.

Bob