From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Alan Mackenzie Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Fontless Info Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2013 23:23:47 +0000 Message-ID: <20130219232347.GC4377@acm.acm> References: <874nh8ybnz.fsf@dimension8.tehua.net> <87mwv0zk06.fsf@thinkpad.tsdh.de> <83r4kcp95y.fsf@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1361316276 7496 80.91.229.3 (19 Feb 2013 23:24:36 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2013 23:24:36 +0000 (UTC) Cc: 'Eli Zaretskii' , emacs-devel@gnu.org, aidalgol@no8wireless.co.nz, 'Tassilo Horn' To: Drew Adams Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Feb 20 00:24:58 2013 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1U7wYT-0006Dk-J5 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 20 Feb 2013 00:24:57 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:60329 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1U7wY9-0005uJ-DJ for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 19 Feb 2013 18:24:37 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:42533) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1U7wY6-0005tt-Im for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 19 Feb 2013 18:24:35 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1U7wXx-0002km-1b for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 19 Feb 2013 18:24:25 -0500 Original-Received: from colin.muc.de ([193.149.48.1]:43948 helo=mail.muc.de) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1U7wXw-0002ke-Ov for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 19 Feb 2013 18:24:24 -0500 Original-Received: (qmail 94070 invoked by uid 3782); 19 Feb 2013 23:24:24 -0000 Original-Received: from acm.muc.de (pD955791A.dip.t-dialin.net [217.85.121.26]) by colin.muc.de (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Wed, 20 Feb 2013 00:24:18 +0100 Original-Received: (qmail 3841 invoked by uid 1000); 19 Feb 2013 23:23:47 -0000 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/1.1.12 (Macallan) X-Primary-Address: acm@muc.de X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: FreeBSD 8.x X-Received-From: 193.149.48.1 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:157176 Archived-At: 'Evening, Drew! On Tue, Feb 19, 2013 at 09:58:31AM -0800, Drew Adams wrote: > But the definition of `global-font-lock-mode-check-buffers' has not changed > since before this regression was introduced, AFAICT. Nothing in its file, > font-core.el, was changed. > It is the definition of `define-globalized-minor-mode' that was changed, > radically it seems. > `C-h f global-font-lock-mode-check-buffers' shows no doc string but tells us it > is a compiled function in `font-core.el'. There is however no explicit > definition of it in that file. It is created by `define-globalized-minor-mode'. > Our help system sends the user on a wild goose chase here. S?he has no hope of > reorientation and finding a way out of the swamp. You can't get there from > here. I agree with you, here. However, that info, "font-core.el" needs to be in the C-h f somewhere, since that is where the macro invocation is that generated `global-font-lock-mode-check-buffers'. But information is missing, more precisely, that that defun was generated by the macro define-globalized-minor-mode. May I suggest, even request, that you specify what the information from C-h f should look like, and perhaps even extend the infrastructure to implement it. > Emacs seems to be little-by-little losing its character of being > self-documenting, by the use more and more of macros that generate functions > without doc. And by the use more and more of `defstruct' without providing doc > for accessor etc. functions. Dommage. > At the very least (and no, it would by no means be a substitute for documenting > the resulting objects themselves), the doc for `define-globalized-minor-mode' > should mention the objects that it creates, such as function > `MODE-check-buffers'. This is partly done, in that a doc string for the global minor mode function is generated, even if not for the helper functions. > > Since the voodoo of easy-mmode is beyond me, I'll let others fix this. > Hear, hear. "Easy", indeed. Easy for those defining things, perhaps. Hard on > Emacs users. Dommage. Shame indeed, but not beyond repair. Good night! -- Alan Mackenzie (Nuremberg, Germany).