From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Alan Mackenzie Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#13141: please review bug #13141 Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2013 10:50:03 +0000 Message-ID: <20130120105003.GA3091__13678.0495908626$1358679452$gmane$org@acm.acm> References: <415AF94149E240B7BCB28128E45D3135@us.oracle.com> <20130119232015.GA517@acm.acm> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1358679433 18273 80.91.229.3 (20 Jan 2013 10:57:13 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2013 10:57:13 +0000 (UTC) Cc: 13141@debbugs.gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Drew Adams Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sun Jan 20 11:57:31 2013 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Twsae-0003Mc-S8 for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sun, 20 Jan 2013 11:57:29 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:36906 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1TwsaO-0005Hh-21 for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sun, 20 Jan 2013 05:57:12 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:46278) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1TwsaL-0005HV-2u for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 20 Jan 2013 05:57:10 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1TwsaH-0001NE-Lv for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 20 Jan 2013 05:57:09 -0500 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.43]:35616) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1TwsaH-0001N2-I1 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 20 Jan 2013 05:57:05 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TwsbC-0004dO-Bn for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 20 Jan 2013 05:58:02 -0500 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Alan Mackenzie Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2013 10:58:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 13141 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: wontfix Original-Received: via spool by 13141-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B13141.135867947417799 (code B ref 13141); Sun, 20 Jan 2013 10:58:02 +0000 Original-Received: (at 13141) by debbugs.gnu.org; 20 Jan 2013 10:57:54 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:41080 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Twsb4-0004d2-AA for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 20 Jan 2013 05:57:54 -0500 Original-Received: from colin.muc.de ([193.149.48.1]:41033 helo=mail.muc.de) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Twsb1-0004cs-9n for 13141@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 20 Jan 2013 05:57:52 -0500 Original-Received: (qmail 6157 invoked by uid 3782); 20 Jan 2013 10:56:52 -0000 Original-Received: from acm.muc.de (pD9556C9C.dip.t-dialin.net [217.85.108.156]) by colin.muc.de (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Sun, 20 Jan 2013 11:56:47 +0100 Original-Received: (qmail 3301 invoked by uid 1000); 20 Jan 2013 10:50:03 -0000 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/1.1.12 (Macallan) X-Primary-Address: acm@muc.de X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6.x X-Received-From: 140.186.70.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:70087 Archived-At: Good Morning, Drew! On Sat, Jan 19, 2013 at 03:59:45PM -0800, Drew Adams wrote: > > > The patch is straightforward. Please reconsider it. > > > Why not let users set the behavior they want for this? > > I have to side with Glenn here. We need to make Bug > > reporters' jobs as simple as possible. > Why not give the individual bug reporters a say in what they think is simple? > Your idea of making their life easier might not be their idea. My model of bug reporter, right now, is somebody considering submitting their very first Emacs bug report > Why does giving other users a choice bother you? > The default behavior would be the same as now. I've not seen the patch, but it is surely either a set of configuration settings or a sequence of questions to be answered each time a new bug report is done. The former doesn't seem useful, since the useful info to include will vary by bug report, not by bug submitter. The latter would be a burden on the bug reporter, and surely could come to be an annoyance. > > Sadly, there is a tendency for things which one _can_ > > configure to become things that one _must_ configure - > I don't recognize any such tendency. Give one example. Er, CC Mode. > > we know all about this in Emacs > Well I don't know about it. I've never seen the addition of a user option, with > no change to the default behavior, require any user to configure that option. That's a narrower case than I meant, I was talking more generally. We all have .emacses and I should think they are mostly biggish files. I would think there are few Emacs users without .emacses, if for nothing more than customize-* settings. > That's logically impossible. > If you do nothing then there is no change in behavior. If you are unaware of > the option then your life is as simple as before. If you are aware of it and IF > you want to take advantage of it, then you might even make life simpler for > yourself than before - but that's your choice. > > - which would be most unfriendly for novice bug reporters. > What would? Giving a choice to any user who wants it? To give somebody a choice is to inflict responsibility on her for choosing. > > Let's keep this as simple as possible. > Let's give _users_ the choice. Let's let them decide what is "as simple as > possible" for themselves, individually. I don't think users having this choice would be helpful. > > > http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=13141#43 -- Alan Mackenzie (Nuremberg, Germany).