* don't show the $-bar that indicates text before and/or after the window view, horizontally @ 2013-07-23 18:13 Emanuel Berg 2013-07-24 1:49 ` Michael Heerdegen [not found] ` <mailman.1674.1374630606.12400.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org> 0 siblings, 2 replies; 56+ messages in thread From: Emanuel Berg @ 2013-07-23 18:13 UTC (permalink / raw To: help-gnu-emacs Sometimes, the text I want to read in Emacs-w3m has a width (in chars) that would suggest that I could have it all visible at once. But, the horizontal scrolling is so heavy-handed, that it still isn't possible! So I setup scrolling char by char, left and right (code last). I seems to work, but there is still the annoying bar of dollar signs ($). (Check out the screenshot, yet after the code.) How can I disable the $-bar? "Disable" could be as in disable, or as in just showing whitespaces instead. (put 'scroll-left 'disabled nil) (put 'scroll-right 'disabled nil) (defun scroll-left-1 () (interactive) (scroll-left 1)) (defun scroll-right-1 () (interactive) (scroll-right 1)) (let ((map (current-global-map))) (define-key map (kbd "C-o i") 'scroll-right-1) (define-key map (kbd "C-o o") 'scroll-left-1) ) Screenshot: http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573/money.png -- Emanuel Berg - programmer (hire me! CV below) computer projects: http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573 internet activity: http://home.student.uu.se/embe8573 ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 56+ messages in thread
* Re: don't show the $-bar that indicates text before and/or after the window view, horizontally 2013-07-23 18:13 don't show the $-bar that indicates text before and/or after the window view, horizontally Emanuel Berg @ 2013-07-24 1:49 ` Michael Heerdegen [not found] ` <mailman.1674.1374630606.12400.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org> 1 sibling, 0 replies; 56+ messages in thread From: Michael Heerdegen @ 2013-07-24 1:49 UTC (permalink / raw To: help-gnu-emacs Emanuel Berg <embe8573@student.uu.se> writes: > Sometimes, the text I want to read in Emacs-w3m has a width (in > chars) that would suggest that I could have it all visible at > once. But, the horizontal scrolling is so heavy-handed, that it > still isn't possible! So I setup scrolling char by char, left and > right (code last). I seems to work, but there is still the > annoying bar of dollar signs ($). (Check out the screenshot, yet > after the code.) How can I disable the $-bar? This "$-bar" is actually the left fringe, displaying the glyph standing for line truncation. This glyph is defined by the currently used display-table. So you have two options: either hide the fringe. Fringes are belonging to windows (not to buffers), so hiding them generally is maybe not what you want. To change the glyph, either set `buffer-display-table' for w3m buffers if you want to modify the glyph only for w3m buffers. To change this globally, you want something like (set-display-table-slot standard-display-table 0 ?\ ) which would set the glyph to the space character. But note that the glyph indicating line truncation in the right fringe is the same one. See (info "(elisp) Character Display") and (info "(elisp) Active Display Table") where the background is explained. Regards, Michael. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 56+ messages in thread
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* Re: don't show the $-bar that indicates text before and/or after the window view, horizontally [not found] ` <mailman.1674.1374630606.12400.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org> @ 2013-07-24 17:10 ` Emanuel Berg 2013-07-24 17:16 ` Damien Wyart 0 siblings, 1 reply; 56+ messages in thread From: Emanuel Berg @ 2013-07-24 17:10 UTC (permalink / raw To: help-gnu-emacs Michael Heerdegen <michael_heerdegen@web.de> writes: > So you have two options: either hide the fringe. Fringes are > belonging to windows (not to buffers), so hiding them generally > is maybe not what you want. Perhaps it is? How do I do that? If I do that, does that mean I get two more chars (one to the left, and one to the right) per line? That would be cool: I use such huge fonts - at least compared to most other people - so while *I* am used to typing short lines, when I browse code from other programmers, even an extra two chars would be great, because those lines tend to be very long. > To change the glyph, either set `buffer-display-table' for w3m > buffers if you want to modify the glyph only for w3m buffers. > To change this globally, you want something like > > (set-display-table-slot standard-display-table 0 ?\ ) 0 (zero) - is that how to denote the "glyph"? > which would set the glyph to the space character. But note that > the glyph indicating line truncation in the right fringe is the > same one. Yes, that worked. I will try to use it globally. I'll find soon enough if the dollar sign gets missed. -- Emanuel Berg - programmer (hire me! CV below) computer projects: http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573 internet activity: http://home.student.uu.se/embe8573 ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 56+ messages in thread
* Re: don't show the $-bar that indicates text before and/or after the window view, horizontally 2013-07-24 17:10 ` Emanuel Berg @ 2013-07-24 17:16 ` Damien Wyart 2013-07-24 17:32 ` Emanuel Berg 0 siblings, 1 reply; 56+ messages in thread From: Damien Wyart @ 2013-07-24 17:16 UTC (permalink / raw To: help-gnu-emacs > > So you have two options: either hide the fringe. Fringes are > > belonging to windows (not to buffers), so hiding them generally is > > maybe not what you want. * Emanuel Berg <embe8573@student.uu.se> in gnu.emacs.help: > Perhaps it is? How do I do that? http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/TheFringe http://stackoverflow.com/questions/11373826/how-to-disable-fringe-in-emacs (describing a (old ?) bug, but giving some interesting settings). -- DW ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 56+ messages in thread
* Re: don't show the $-bar that indicates text before and/or after the window view, horizontally 2013-07-24 17:16 ` Damien Wyart @ 2013-07-24 17:32 ` Emanuel Berg 2013-07-24 17:53 ` Eli Zaretskii ` (2 more replies) 0 siblings, 3 replies; 56+ messages in thread From: Emanuel Berg @ 2013-07-24 17:32 UTC (permalink / raw To: help-gnu-emacs Damien Wyart <damien.wyart@free.fr> writes: > http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/TheFringe > http://stackoverflow.com/questions/11373826/how-to-disable-fringe-in-emacs > (describing a (old ?) bug, but giving some interesting settings). The below doesn't seem to do anything, neither in X or the tty. (set-fringe-mode '(0 . 0)) (set-fringe-mode '(10 . 10)) I says in the documentation that a zero should disable the fringe, but if so - if the glyph appears in the fringe - why do I still need (set-display-table-slot standard-display-table 0 ?\ ) to hide the $'s? -- Emanuel Berg - programmer (hire me! CV below) computer projects: http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573 internet activity: http://home.student.uu.se/embe8573 ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 56+ messages in thread
* Re: don't show the $-bar that indicates text before and/or after the window view, horizontally 2013-07-24 17:32 ` Emanuel Berg @ 2013-07-24 17:53 ` Eli Zaretskii [not found] ` <mailman.1719.1374695805.12400.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org> [not found] ` <<8338r3x2ta.fsf@gnu.org> [not found] ` <mailman.1716.1374688401.12400.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org> 2 siblings, 1 reply; 56+ messages in thread From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2013-07-24 17:53 UTC (permalink / raw To: help-gnu-emacs > From: Emanuel Berg <embe8573@student.uu.se> > Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2013 19:32:09 +0200 > > The below doesn't seem to do anything, neither in X or the tty. > > (set-fringe-mode '(0 . 0)) This should disable the fringes on X. The TTY Emacs doesn't have fringes (which are a GUI feature, thus unavailable on a TTY). But in a GUI session, the above works for me in all Emacs versions starting with 22.1. If it doesn't for you, you are doing something wrong. I don't know what it is that you are doing wrong, because you didn't explain how you tried to make the above work -- what did you type, exactly, and where. > I says in the documentation that a zero should disable the fringe, > but if so - if the glyph appears in the fringe - why do I still > need > > (set-display-table-slot standard-display-table 0 ?\ ) > > to hide the $'s? Because the $ glyph is a separate feature. Emacs on X can show truncated lines either on the fringes, using special bitmaps, or with the special glyph, which is $ by default; the latter feature kicks in if the fringes are not available. If you want to get rid of both the fringes and the $ glyph, you need to disable them separately. (At this point, I'd suggest to invest some time in reading the manuals, because messing with such advanced stuff is not recommended if you don't even know what the fringes are, how to control them, and what is slot zero of the standard-display-table.) ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 56+ messages in thread
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* Re: don't show the $-bar that indicates text before and/or after the window view, horizontally [not found] ` <mailman.1719.1374695805.12400.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org> @ 2013-07-24 21:13 ` Emanuel Berg 2013-07-24 23:35 ` Drew Adams [not found] ` <mailman.1726.1374708932.12400.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org> 0 siblings, 2 replies; 56+ messages in thread From: Emanuel Berg @ 2013-07-24 21:13 UTC (permalink / raw To: help-gnu-emacs Drew Adams <drew.adams@oracle.com> writes: >> (At this point, I'd suggest to invest some time in reading the >> manuals, because messing with such advanced stuff is not >> recommended if you don't even know... > > +1, and even if one does know... -1: rude, negativistic comment. > I'd suggest also learning to use Customize, if you haven't > already. No, I prefer having everything as Elisp that I myself write, that way I don't have to navigate back and forth in a "whole-screen" system like that. I don't like such systems in general: for example, I don't like 'info' either. I like the man pages, although they are hypertexted to, but that is much less emphasized, and I almost never use it. -- Emanuel Berg - programmer (hire me! CV below) computer projects: http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573 internet activity: http://home.student.uu.se/embe8573 ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 56+ messages in thread
* RE: don't show the $-bar that indicates text before and/or after the window view, horizontally 2013-07-24 21:13 ` Emanuel Berg @ 2013-07-24 23:35 ` Drew Adams [not found] ` <mailman.1726.1374708932.12400.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org> 1 sibling, 0 replies; 56+ messages in thread From: Drew Adams @ 2013-07-24 23:35 UTC (permalink / raw To: Emanuel Berg, help-gnu-emacs > >> (At this point, I'd suggest to invest some time in reading the > >> manuals, because messing with such advanced stuff is not > >> recommended if you don't even know... > > > > +1, and even if one does know... > > -1: rude, negativistic comment. My point was that even if one knows such stuff (advanced stuff or not) it can help to read about it again. By "one" I meant first of all myself: one who has learned some, forgotten some, and relearned some, more than once. That's advice I give myself, and it's still unsolicited advice I would offer others. Perhaps a smily would have helped you not interpret such advice negatively. Or perhaps not. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 56+ messages in thread
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* Re: don't show the $-bar that indicates text before and/or after the window view, horizontally [not found] ` <mailman.1726.1374708932.12400.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org> @ 2013-07-25 0:58 ` Emanuel Berg 2013-07-25 2:14 ` Thien-Thi Nguyen 0 siblings, 1 reply; 56+ messages in thread From: Emanuel Berg @ 2013-07-25 0:58 UTC (permalink / raw To: help-gnu-emacs Drew Adams <drew.adams@oracle.com> writes: >>>> (At this point, I'd suggest to invest some time in reading >>>> the manuals, because messing with such advanced stuff is not >>>> recommended if you don't even know... >>> >>> +1, and even if one does know... >> >> -1: rude, negativistic comment. > > By "one" I meant first of all myself: one who has learned some, > forgotten some, and relearned some, more than once. That's always the case. Yet, every time you relearn, it is faster, and you gain a better understanding than the first time you learned it. So in that sense forgetting is a bliss. My comment was not aimed at your answer, which wasn't rude in any way. > That's advice I give myself, and it's still unsolicited advice I > would offer others. Yes, I agree. -- Emanuel Berg - programmer (hire me! CV below) computer projects: http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573 internet activity: http://home.student.uu.se/embe8573 ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 56+ messages in thread
* Re: don't show the $-bar that indicates text before and/or after the window view, horizontally 2013-07-25 0:58 ` Emanuel Berg @ 2013-07-25 2:14 ` Thien-Thi Nguyen 0 siblings, 0 replies; 56+ messages in thread From: Thien-Thi Nguyen @ 2013-07-25 2:14 UTC (permalink / raw To: Emanuel Berg; +Cc: help-gnu-emacs [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 533 bytes --] () Emanuel Berg <embe8573@student.uu.se> () Thu, 25 Jul 2013 02:58:34 +0200 My comment was not aimed at your answer, which wasn't rude in any way. Regardless of aim, what you post is broadcast, a sphere of sound and sense, slowly expanding. What will you say of this bubble in t+10years? -- Thien-Thi Nguyen GPG key: 4C807502 (if you're human and you know it) read my lisp: (responsep (questions 'technical) (not (via 'mailing-list))) => nil [-- Attachment #2: Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 197 bytes --] ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 56+ messages in thread
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* RE: don't show the $-bar that indicates text before and/or after the window view, horizontally [not found] ` <<8338r3x2ta.fsf@gnu.org> @ 2013-07-24 19:56 ` Drew Adams 0 siblings, 0 replies; 56+ messages in thread From: Drew Adams @ 2013-07-24 19:56 UTC (permalink / raw To: Eli Zaretskii, help-gnu-emacs > > doesn't seem to do anything, neither in X or the tty. > > (set-fringe-mode '(0 . 0)) ... > (At this point, I'd suggest to invest some time in reading the > manuals, because messing with such advanced stuff is not recommended > if you don't even know... +1, and even if one does know... I'd suggest also learning to use Customize, if you haven't already. Assuming that you want to set up fringes in general (i.e., your preferred default fringe settings), just `M-x customize-option fringe-mode'. You have the choice among: * Default * No fringes * Right only * Left only * Half width * Minimal * Specific width * Different left/right sizes And the doc is right there too, to explain things. Customize is pretty easy to use, and it keeps its settings separate from your own Lisp (e.g., ~/.emacs) settings if you use option `custom-file' (which you should, IMHO). And - especially - it performs type-checking and takes care of initialization, automatic updating in special cases, and possibly complex interactions with other functions, modes, options, internal variables, etc. IOW, let Emacs do the busy work for you. (I notice now, BTW, that (emacs) `Fringes' does not mention user option `fringe-mode'. I've filed a doc bug (#14946) for that. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 56+ messages in thread
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* Re: don't show the $-bar that indicates text before and/or after the window view, horizontally [not found] ` <mailman.1716.1374688401.12400.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org> @ 2013-07-24 21:06 ` Emanuel Berg 2013-07-24 21:35 ` Juanma Barranquero [not found] ` <mailman.1723.1374701789.12400.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org> 2013-07-25 5:09 ` Rustom Mody 1 sibling, 2 replies; 56+ messages in thread From: Emanuel Berg @ 2013-07-24 21:06 UTC (permalink / raw To: help-gnu-emacs Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes: > This should disable the fringes on X. The TTY Emacs doesn't > have fringes (which are a GUI feature, thus unavailable on a > TTY). But in a GUI session, the above works Yes, that explains it. I always use Emacs in a Linux VT (a TTY), and when I tried it in X, I had forgot that I had aliased 'emacs' to 'emacs -nw'. I'm so used to Emacs looking like that, I didn't notice. With '\emacs -Q' and a WM, I get the GUI window. > (At this point, I'd suggest to invest some time in reading the > manuals, because messing with such advanced stuff is not > recommended ... Yes, it is. I'm not afraid of my computer. > if you don't even know what the fringes are, how to control > them, and what is slot zero of the standard-display-table.) I know that stuff - now. -- Emanuel Berg - programmer (hire me! CV below) computer projects: http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573 internet activity: http://home.student.uu.se/embe8573 ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 56+ messages in thread
* Re: don't show the $-bar that indicates text before and/or after the window view, horizontally 2013-07-24 21:06 ` Emanuel Berg @ 2013-07-24 21:35 ` Juanma Barranquero [not found] ` <mailman.1723.1374701789.12400.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org> 1 sibling, 0 replies; 56+ messages in thread From: Juanma Barranquero @ 2013-07-24 21:35 UTC (permalink / raw To: Emanuel Berg; +Cc: Emacs Help List On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 11:06 PM, Emanuel Berg <embe8573@student.uu.se> wrote: > Yes, it is. I'm not afraid of my computer. -1: rude comment, cavalier attitude. Eli's suggestion that "messing with such advanced stuff is not recommended" should not be interpreted, I think, as "Don't Do It Because You're Not Prepared Or Smart Enough". It's more like, well, if you like to experiment so much without reading the manuals, then please don't waste people's time asking questions; surely you'll be able to figure it all eventually without outside help. ...And if that's not what Eli meant, certainly it is what I do mean... Asking questions and then rating helpful answers for rudeness is... interesting. J ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 56+ messages in thread
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* Re: don't show the $-bar that indicates text before and/or after the window view, horizontally [not found] ` <mailman.1723.1374701789.12400.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org> @ 2013-07-24 22:58 ` Emanuel Berg 2013-07-24 23:22 ` Juanma Barranquero [not found] ` <mailman.1725.1374708201.12400.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org> 0 siblings, 2 replies; 56+ messages in thread From: Emanuel Berg @ 2013-07-24 22:58 UTC (permalink / raw To: help-gnu-emacs Juanma Barranquero <lekktu@gmail.com> writes: >> Yes, it is. I'm not afraid of my computer. > > -1: rude comment, cavalier attitude. +1: Cavalier, that's a compliment. > Eli's suggestion that "messing with such advanced stuff is not > recommended" should not be interpreted, I think, as "Don't Do It > Because You're Not Prepared Or Smart Enough". He also said "... if you don't even know ..." which you don't quote. And you also spell out a possible (rude) interpretation, even though you say that wasn't the point. That means that interpretation is possible and close at hand. And - hiding the fringes. Is that really considered "advanced"? If it can be achieved with one line of Elisp, I don't think it is especially advanced or in any way dangerous to configure. > It's more like, well, if you like to experiment so much without > reading the manuals I have read the Emacs manual - twice. And the white book on Emacs that O'Reilly. If the fringes were mentioned in those books, I have no problem with that because my memory is not perfect. > then please don't waste people's time asking questions I'm not wasting anyone's time because I'm only in charge of my own time. > surely you'll be able to figure it all eventually without > outside help. No, that is not what happened at all. I asked the question and got help, as you saw. Eli's answer was helpful as well, until it turned rude. > Asking questions and then rating helpful answers for rudeness > is... interesting. Eli's answer were helpful *and* rude. There was a helpful part, *and* a rude part. But there is no balance in that. You can't help me, and then be rude, and think everything's OK. It doesn't matter how much you help me: I don't accept rudeness. -- Emanuel Berg - programmer (hire me! CV below) computer projects: http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573 internet activity: http://home.student.uu.se/embe8573 ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 56+ messages in thread
* Re: don't show the $-bar that indicates text before and/or after the window view, horizontally 2013-07-24 22:58 ` Emanuel Berg @ 2013-07-24 23:22 ` Juanma Barranquero [not found] ` <mailman.1725.1374708201.12400.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org> 1 sibling, 0 replies; 56+ messages in thread From: Juanma Barranquero @ 2013-07-24 23:22 UTC (permalink / raw To: Emanuel Berg; +Cc: Emacs Help List On Thu, Jul 25, 2013 at 12:58 AM, Emanuel Berg <embe8573@student.uu.se> wrote: > And you also spell out a possible (rude) interpretation, > even though you say that wasn't the point. That means that > interpretation is possible and close at hand. With a working imagination and a little effort, every conceivable interpretation is possible and close at hand. J ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 56+ messages in thread
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* Re: don't show the $-bar that indicates text before and/or after the window view, horizontally [not found] ` <mailman.1725.1374708201.12400.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org> @ 2013-07-24 23:26 ` Emanuel Berg 0 siblings, 0 replies; 56+ messages in thread From: Emanuel Berg @ 2013-07-24 23:26 UTC (permalink / raw To: help-gnu-emacs Juanma Barranquero <lekktu@gmail.com> writes: >> And you also spell out a possible (rude) interpretation, even >> though you say that wasn't the point. That means that >> interpretation is possible and close at hand. > > With a working imagination and a little effort, every > conceivable interpretation is possible and close at hand. No, that was a rude comment and it wasn't my imagination or any efforts of mine that made it rude. -- Emanuel Berg - programmer (hire me! CV below) computer projects: http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573 internet activity: http://home.student.uu.se/embe8573 ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 56+ messages in thread
* Re: don't show the $-bar that indicates text before and/or after the window view, horizontally [not found] ` <mailman.1716.1374688401.12400.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org> 2013-07-24 21:06 ` Emanuel Berg @ 2013-07-25 5:09 ` Rustom Mody 2013-07-25 7:52 ` Emanuel Berg 1 sibling, 1 reply; 56+ messages in thread From: Rustom Mody @ 2013-07-25 5:09 UTC (permalink / raw To: help-gnu-emacs On Wednesday, July 24, 2013 11:23:05 PM UTC+5:30, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > (At this point, I'd suggest to invest some time in reading the > manuals, because messing with such advanced stuff is not recommended > if you don't even know what the fringes are, how to control them, and > what is slot zero of the standard-display-table.) Even after teaching CS for nearly 3 decades, I continue to find unsettling the mercilessness with which the Dunning-Kruger effect strikes the unwary. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 56+ messages in thread
* Re: don't show the $-bar that indicates text before and/or after the window view, horizontally 2013-07-25 5:09 ` Rustom Mody @ 2013-07-25 7:52 ` Emanuel Berg 2013-07-25 7:59 ` Juanma Barranquero ` (4 more replies) 0 siblings, 5 replies; 56+ messages in thread From: Emanuel Berg @ 2013-07-25 7:52 UTC (permalink / raw To: help-gnu-emacs Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> writes: >> (At this point, I'd suggest to invest some time in reading the >> manuals, because messing with such advanced stuff is not >> recommended if you don't even know what the fringes are, how to >> control them, and what is slot zero of the >> standard-display-table.) > > Even after teaching CS for nearly 3 decades, I continue to find > unsettling the mercilessness with which the Dunning-Kruger > effect strikes the unwary. What is the Dunning-Kruger effect? Wikipedia: > The Dunning–Kruger effect is a cognitive bias in which unskilled > individuals suffer from illusory superiority, mistakenly rating > their ability much higher than average. This bias is attributed > to a metacognitive inability of the unskilled to recognize their > mistakes. Well, well! Are you going to keep this up, guys?! I asked a question on technology, and got a couple of answers. Since then, you are doing your worst insulting me. OK, Mody: 1) I have a degree in CS myself, probably not as fancy as yours, but fancy enough to know this is not CS, but CP (computer practice). You can't pull rank. 2) And, I happen to be a teacher myself. And the *one* thing I always encourage my students is: be *active* with your material! Think, write, draw, ask, answer, juggle. You, on the other hand: when I ask how to hide the $ sign - which is doable with *one* line of Elisp, a solution which worked instantly, and in the process brought clarity to another thing I didn't know, namely fringes - you think this illusory superiority, of an unskilled individual? I hope for your students sake this is not how you treat them. -- Emanuel Berg - programmer (hire me! CV below) computer projects: http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573 internet activity: http://home.student.uu.se/embe8573 ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 56+ messages in thread
* Re: don't show the $-bar that indicates text before and/or after the window view, horizontally 2013-07-25 7:52 ` Emanuel Berg @ 2013-07-25 7:59 ` Juanma Barranquero [not found] ` <mailman.1736.1374739225.12400.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org> ` (3 subsequent siblings) 4 siblings, 0 replies; 56+ messages in thread From: Juanma Barranquero @ 2013-07-25 7:59 UTC (permalink / raw To: Emanuel Berg; +Cc: Emacs Help List On Thu, Jul 25, 2013 at 9:52 AM, Emanuel Berg <embe8573@student.uu.se> wrote: > Well, well! Are you going to keep this up, guys?! I asked a > question on technology, and got a couple of answers. Since then, > you are doing your worst insulting me. Do you think this is some kind of plot against you? Or could be another reason? J ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 56+ messages in thread
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* Re: don't show the $-bar that indicates text before and/or after the window view, horizontally [not found] ` <mailman.1736.1374739225.12400.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org> @ 2013-07-25 8:04 ` Emanuel Berg 2013-07-25 8:12 ` Juanma Barranquero [not found] ` <mailman.1739.1374739991.12400.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org> 0 siblings, 2 replies; 56+ messages in thread From: Emanuel Berg @ 2013-07-25 8:04 UTC (permalink / raw To: help-gnu-emacs Juanma Barranquero <lekktu@gmail.com> writes: > Do you think this is some kind of plot against you? Or could be > another reason? I don't have to think. I *see* me asking a question on technology, and getting the most rude insults back. Why you guys behave the way you do the Devil knows. *Important*: Those of you who answered seriously and without insults, I'm *not* forgetting that you did so. -- Emanuel Berg - programmer (hire me! CV below) computer projects: http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573 internet activity: http://home.student.uu.se/embe8573 ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 56+ messages in thread
* Re: don't show the $-bar that indicates text before and/or after the window view, horizontally 2013-07-25 8:04 ` Emanuel Berg @ 2013-07-25 8:12 ` Juanma Barranquero [not found] ` <mailman.1739.1374739991.12400.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org> 1 sibling, 0 replies; 56+ messages in thread From: Juanma Barranquero @ 2013-07-25 8:12 UTC (permalink / raw To: Emanuel Berg; +Cc: Emacs Help List On Thu, Jul 25, 2013 at 10:04 AM, Emanuel Berg <embe8573@student.uu.se> wrote: > I don't have to think. I *see* me asking a question on technology, > and getting the most rude insults back. Why you guys behave the > way you do the Devil knows. Which means that there's nothing you could be doing that has any bearing in the kind of answers that you get. > *Important*: Those of you who answered seriously and without > insults, I'm *not* forgetting that you did so. Your attitude, for example. J ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 56+ messages in thread
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* Re: don't show the $-bar that indicates text before and/or after the window view, horizontally [not found] ` <mailman.1739.1374739991.12400.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org> @ 2013-07-25 9:06 ` Emanuel Berg 2013-07-25 9:40 ` Jambunathan K ` (2 more replies) 0 siblings, 3 replies; 56+ messages in thread From: Emanuel Berg @ 2013-07-25 9:06 UTC (permalink / raw To: help-gnu-emacs Juanma Barranquero <lekktu@gmail.com> writes: >> I don't have to think. I *see* me asking a question on >> technology, and getting the most rude insults back. Why you >> guys behave the way you do the Devil knows. > > Which means that there's nothing you could be doing that has any > bearing in the kind of answers that you get. Which means - that I'm not going to analyze your behaviour. I'm not in the business of changing peoples brains. Stupid is, as stupid does. If you guys (some of you) insult me when I'm active with technology, I don't have to do anything. I'm doing the right thing, and you guys (some of you) are not. *And* - even if I *were* doing something wrong, the correct response to this is *still* not being rude! Remember, "It is easy to be angry. But it is difficult to be angry at the right moment, at the right person, and for the right reason." And you could add: "It is even more difficult to show that anger in the correct way." So: I'm angry at YOU (some of you), NOW, because of INSULTS that has NOTHING to do with why we are here, and I'm SHOWING this anger by TELLING you why I'm angry. Am I getting through to you?! >> *Important*: Those of you who answered seriously and without >> insults, I'm *not* forgetting that you did so. > > Your attitude, for example. What about it? -- Emanuel Berg - programmer (hire me! CV below) computer projects: http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573 internet activity: http://home.student.uu.se/embe8573 ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 56+ messages in thread
* Re: don't show the $-bar that indicates text before and/or after the window view, horizontally 2013-07-25 9:06 ` Emanuel Berg @ 2013-07-25 9:40 ` Jambunathan K 2013-07-25 10:47 ` Juanma Barranquero [not found] ` <mailman.1747.1374749300.12400.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org> 2 siblings, 0 replies; 56+ messages in thread From: Jambunathan K @ 2013-07-25 9:40 UTC (permalink / raw To: Emanuel Berg; +Cc: help-gnu-emacs "All the world's a stage, and all the men and women merely players: they have their exits and their entrances; and one man in his time plays many parts..." —As You Like It, Act II, Scene 7, 139–42[28] Hmmm! Other players want Emanuel, "the Technologist" to exit. Emanuel thinks otherwise. Popcorn time!!! ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 56+ messages in thread
* Re: don't show the $-bar that indicates text before and/or after the window view, horizontally 2013-07-25 9:06 ` Emanuel Berg 2013-07-25 9:40 ` Jambunathan K @ 2013-07-25 10:47 ` Juanma Barranquero [not found] ` <mailman.1747.1374749300.12400.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org> 2 siblings, 0 replies; 56+ messages in thread From: Juanma Barranquero @ 2013-07-25 10:47 UTC (permalink / raw To: Emanuel Berg; +Cc: Emacs Help List On Thu, Jul 25, 2013 at 11:06 AM, Emanuel Berg <embe8573@student.uu.se> wrote: > Am I getting through to you?! Not more or less than before. > What about it? If this >>> *Important*: Those of you who answered seriously and without >>> insults, I'm *not* forgetting that you did so. doesn't strike you as childish, our worldviews are vastly different. J ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 56+ messages in thread
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* Re: don't show the $-bar that indicates text before and/or after the window view, horizontally [not found] ` <mailman.1747.1374749300.12400.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org> @ 2013-07-25 17:06 ` Emanuel Berg 0 siblings, 0 replies; 56+ messages in thread From: Emanuel Berg @ 2013-07-25 17:06 UTC (permalink / raw To: help-gnu-emacs Juanma Barranquero <lekktu@gmail.com> writes: > If this > >>>> *Important*: Those of you who answered seriously and without >>>> insults, I'm *not* forgetting that you did so. > > doesn't strike you as childish, our worldviews are vastly > different. I didn't want to direct any resentment to those who didn't deserve it, and by saying so, hopefully I didn't. What's wrong with that? "Childish" is on the contrary to be angry with everyone at the first setback, without discretion. -- Emanuel Berg - programmer (hire me! CV below) computer projects: http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573 internet activity: http://home.student.uu.se/embe8573 ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 56+ messages in thread
* Re: don't show the $-bar that indicates text before and/or after the window view, horizontally 2013-07-25 7:52 ` Emanuel Berg 2013-07-25 7:59 ` Juanma Barranquero [not found] ` <mailman.1736.1374739225.12400.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org> @ 2013-07-25 10:34 ` Rustom Mody 2013-07-25 10:55 ` Jambunathan K ` (4 more replies) 2013-07-25 11:40 ` don't show the $-bar that indicates text before and/or after the window view, horizontally Jambunathan K [not found] ` <mailman.1752.1374752366.12400.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org> 4 siblings, 5 replies; 56+ messages in thread From: Rustom Mody @ 2013-07-25 10:34 UTC (permalink / raw To: help-gnu-emacs On Thursday, July 25, 2013 1:22:45 PM UTC+5:30, Emanuel Berg wrote: > OK, Mody: 1) I have a degree in CS myself, probably not as fancy > as yours, but fancy enough to know this is not CS, but CP > (computer practice). You can't pull rank. No rank or pulling. Basic education-stuff. You want to learn calculus? Ok first need to clear algebra. Algebra? First need arithmetic. So... Basic stuff: abc before xyz. Eli asked you to read some basic stuff before grappling with more advanced stuff. emacs is quite a formidable piece of software -- hopefully that you will agree with. And in dealing with that, listening to the sequencing suggestions of insider-guys (like Eli) seems like a good idea. eg if you were teaching emacs to a noob, would you not put C-x C-f before M-x find-file before M-: (find-file) ? Ok Eli spoke more roughly/rudely than necessary. Maybe there are other contextual reasons for that?... Dunno... > 2) And, I happen to be a teacher myself. If you are serious about that (and everyone who is trying to learn something needs to be serious at least about teaching himself) you can take it from someone who has taught some thousands of students: the single biggest problem in teaching/learning is closing the meta-cognitive loop. Or less jargoned: How to debug yourself. It matters little - how much you know - how hard you work - which degrees you possess - which muscles bulge how much Yeah it matters... but very little compared to the ability to debug. You could debug emacs with gdb. Maybe guys like Eli do such things occasionally... Dunno. For more ordinary mortals, edebug is usually more than enough heavyweight. Drew's suggestion to use customize (note as a debugging tool) is even more lightweight. (I personally hate customize as a customization tool though its neat for exploration) And Eli's suggestion to approach the corpus of stuff inside emacs in a certain order is more lightweight still. So... Its really quite easy to NOT be in the category to which Dunning-Kruger apply: Just be ready/easy to say: "Yeah... I dont know... How to learn???" [The wikipedia article is as usual boringly written. It links to http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/06/20/the-anosognosics-dilemma-1/?_r=0 which explains better ] Let me end with something that we veteran teachers always fear: The Einstein effect. One of Einstein's school teachers told him he was an idiot and a useless who would never make anything of his life. And so when you cross to the other side and become a teacher, theres always the nagging fear: Is there some idiot in my class who will become Einstein in future? ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 56+ messages in thread
* Re: don't show the $-bar that indicates text before and/or after the window view, horizontally 2013-07-25 10:34 ` Rustom Mody @ 2013-07-25 10:55 ` Jambunathan K 2013-07-25 16:43 ` Eli Zaretskii ` (3 subsequent siblings) 4 siblings, 0 replies; 56+ messages in thread From: Jambunathan K @ 2013-07-25 10:55 UTC (permalink / raw To: help-gnu-emacs I care little for the old farts who show no tolerance for enthusiasm of an young man. I find Emanuel enthusiastic (and a bit chirpy) but definitely not arrogant. He has shown his Emacs Lisp snippets and I have no doubt that he has good working knowledge of Emacs. We don't want to drive Emanuel away. I hope he sticks around in this list and helps others with their queries. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 56+ messages in thread
* Re: don't show the $-bar that indicates text before and/or after the window view, horizontally 2013-07-25 10:34 ` Rustom Mody 2013-07-25 10:55 ` Jambunathan K @ 2013-07-25 16:43 ` Eli Zaretskii 2013-07-25 16:59 ` Emanuel Berg ` (2 subsequent siblings) 4 siblings, 0 replies; 56+ messages in thread From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2013-07-25 16:43 UTC (permalink / raw To: help-gnu-emacs > Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2013 03:34:41 -0700 (PDT) > From: Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> > > Ok Eli spoke more roughly/rudely than necessary. I don't understand why you say that. There was nothing rude or "rough" in what I wrote, not a single rude or offensive word. I gave a comprehensive answer to the OP's questions. I then suggested, given his apparent lack of knowledge about the stuff being discussed, to read about that in the manuals. Since not knowing something is not something one should be ashamed of, how can a _suggestion_ to learn about that be "rude"? And if it _is_ considered rude, I wonder what isn't. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 56+ messages in thread
* Re: don't show the $-bar that indicates text before and/or after the window view, horizontally 2013-07-25 10:34 ` Rustom Mody 2013-07-25 10:55 ` Jambunathan K 2013-07-25 16:43 ` Eli Zaretskii @ 2013-07-25 16:59 ` Emanuel Berg 2013-07-25 18:20 ` Jambunathan K [not found] ` <mailman.1773.1374776354.12400.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org> [not found] ` <mailman.1748.1374749649.12400.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org> [not found] ` <mailman.1771.1374770675.12400.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org> 4 siblings, 2 replies; 56+ messages in thread From: Emanuel Berg @ 2013-07-25 16:59 UTC (permalink / raw To: help-gnu-emacs Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> writes: > No rank or pulling. Basic education-stuff. You want to learn > calculus? Ok first need to clear algebra. Algebra? First need > arithmetic. So... Basic stuff: abc before xyz. In general - perhaps, but you shouldn't be afraid to advance as fast as possible. "Advance too fast, you catch up with death. But advance too slow, death catches up with *you*." In this particular case, "advance too fast" is nonsense because I don't need to do anything before I change the dollar sign or disable the fringe. I just need to know how to do it, and this information was provided. > Eli asked you to read some basic stuff before grappling with > more advanced stuff. Like I said, I don't consider that advanced, and besides I read every book on Emacs I have gotten hold of, plus every Emacs chapter in every general Linux book I ever saw. To assume I didn't read anything is in itself an insult, and incorrect at that. > emacs is quite a formidable piece of software -- hopefully that > you will agree with. And in dealing with that, listening to the > sequencing suggestions of insider-guys (like Eli) Again, rank is irrelevant: I'm able to asses material as it is. I don't care if you coded creation itself, if you're rude, I don't want to deal with you. > If you are serious about that (and everyone who is trying to > learn something needs to be serious at least about teaching > himself) you can take it from someone who has taught some > thousands of students I'm not going to take anything from a person who pulls rank every second sentence. > So... Its really quite easy to NOT be in the category to which > Dunning-Kruger apply: Just be ready/easy to say: "Yeah... I dont > know... How to learn???" I know how to learn. You learn by being active. How do the Cuban boxers win Gold at every Olympics? How do they master to throw punches? They throw 1000 punches a day, and then they eat and sleep. Learning is difficult to do, but not difficult to understand. > Let me end with something that we veteran The only thing you do is pull rank. > teachers always fear: The Einstein effect. One of Einstein's > school teachers told him he was an idiot and a useless who would > never make anything of his life. And so when you cross to the > other side and become a teacher, theres always the nagging fear: > Is there some idiot in my class who will become Einstein in > future? Why on Earth would you fear that? I don't know what Einstein did, but if he did good things, as I think, we could sure use more of those. -- Emanuel Berg - programmer (hire me! CV below) computer projects: http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573 internet activity: http://home.student.uu.se/embe8573 ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 56+ messages in thread
* Re: don't show the $-bar that indicates text before and/or after the window view, horizontally 2013-07-25 16:59 ` Emanuel Berg @ 2013-07-25 18:20 ` Jambunathan K [not found] ` <mailman.1773.1374776354.12400.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org> 1 sibling, 0 replies; 56+ messages in thread From: Jambunathan K @ 2013-07-25 18:20 UTC (permalink / raw To: Emanuel Berg; +Cc: help-gnu-emacs Emanuel One does not have to be a Technologist to use or be proficient with Emacs. This is what RMS has to say ,---- http://www.gnu.org/gnu/rms-lisp.html | | It was Bernie Greenberg, who discovered .... He wrote a version of Emacs | in Multics MacLisp, and he wrote his commands in MacLisp in a | straightforward fashion. The editor itself was written entirely in | Lisp. Multics Emacs proved to be a great success — programming new | editing commands was so convenient that even the secretaries in his | office started learning how to use it. They used a manual someone had | written which showed how to extend Emacs, but didn't say it was a | programming. So the secretaries, who believed they couldn't do | programming, weren't scared off. They read the manual, discovered they | could do useful things and they learned to program | `---- Remember he is talking about secretaries in early days of computing learning Emacs and learning programming in the process. I am sure secretaries had no CS degrees and more importantly they belonged to a period when computers were not common place and were quite the cutting edge. I just laugh when young kids in this day of Google complain that Emacs is primitive and is difficult to learn. I consider it a joke. That you have to be super-human to learn and use Emacs is more of a myth and in reality has no truth to it. We can learn a lot from these secretaries and each other... > Like I said, I don't consider that advanced, Whatever I don't know is advanced for me. For example, what sounds like a basic move in kick boxing to you would be advanced for me. This is because I know nothing about kick boxing. By same token, fringe-mode is advanced for me. Because I never knew fringe-mode when this conversation began. > and besides I read every book on Emacs I have gotten hold of, plus > every Emacs chapter in every general Linux book I ever saw. To assume > I didn't read anything is in itself an insult, and incorrect at that. Books on Emacs are old. They should be lagging behind on quite a good amount of stuff. I learn a lot by listening to conversation here. For example, I learnt about fringe-mode as part of this thread. One commmand that I frequently use is this, C-h d something Another thing that I use is, C-h r i something C-h r I something M-x customize-group RET something RET I also look at the source code C-h f fringe-mode and read the help buffer. I click on the file and also all the hyperlinks to see what all is there to learn about fringe-mode, for example. You can add the following to your .emacs. (find-function-setup-keys) C-x F fringe-mode C-x V fringe-bitmaps will take you directly to the source code. I look at the comments in the source file to see what the author "says" about his creation. ---------------------------------------------------------------- It all boils down to how will you pick up on something that is not documented in the books. Read the manual. Look up the documentation. Peek in to Emacs by setting a break point. Have conversation with others who are familiar with internals etc. Most importantly one learns by imitation, by just going through the motions, without thinking too much about motions themselves. Yes, you are spot on how to learn the punches ... Sometimes, I try to answer someone because I myself don't know how it is done. In the very process I have hit upon gold numerous times. If you aspire to become a Technologist, there is no end to the road. ---------------------------------------------------------------- One thing I will offer as suggestion is to stick to the theme of the post. The GNU Emacs Help forum is about conversation about Emacs. Here the conversation shouldn't about Emanuel, Eli, Drew, Juanama, Rustom or even RMS. The conversation should be about Emacs and nothing else. So you should talk less about yourself. For example, there is no need for us to know that you are a Tech enthusiast. What we want to know is that you are an Emacs user and you have experience and insight to share. ---------------------------------------------------------------- ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 56+ messages in thread
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* Re: don't show the $-bar that indicates text before and/or after the window view, horizontally [not found] ` <mailman.1773.1374776354.12400.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org> @ 2013-07-25 18:33 ` Emanuel Berg 2013-07-25 19:04 ` Jambunathan K 0 siblings, 1 reply; 56+ messages in thread From: Emanuel Berg @ 2013-07-25 18:33 UTC (permalink / raw To: help-gnu-emacs Jambunathan K <kjambunathan@gmail.com> writes: > One does not have to be a Technologist to use or be proficient > with Emacs. I read your entire post and tried to learn from it, but it was a bit long so I have to print it and read it again. But, I'd like to mention that I think that while *all* people who use a computer should master an editor, because typing is so common in modern life, I absolutely don't think all people should use Emacs the way I do. -- Emanuel Berg - programmer (hire me! CV below) computer projects: http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573 internet activity: http://home.student.uu.se/embe8573 ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 56+ messages in thread
* Re: don't show the $-bar that indicates text before and/or after the window view, horizontally 2013-07-25 18:33 ` Emanuel Berg @ 2013-07-25 19:04 ` Jambunathan K 2013-07-26 13:34 ` Stefan Monnier [not found] ` <mailman.1840.1374845680.12400.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org> 0 siblings, 2 replies; 56+ messages in thread From: Jambunathan K @ 2013-07-25 19:04 UTC (permalink / raw To: Emanuel Berg; +Cc: help-gnu-emacs > But, I'd like to mention that I think that while *all* people who use > a computer should master an editor, because typing is so common in > modern life, I agree. > I absolutely don't think all people should use Emacs the way I do. Yes, I see that you have fairly large customization of key bindings and stuff. I wouldn't recommend it for others. But if you share your customization in a blog post or a emacswiki page or even a "self post" in this forum, I am sure other like minded Tech enthusiast will have a lot to learn from it. I think you should share your customization with all of us. But start a different thread. ---------------------------------------------------------------- Remember this forum is not a social networking site. There are no upvotes, downvotes, reputation points or comment karmas. We just have normal human conversation. People try to be honest in this forum and so naturally they get angry, upset, angry, happy, elated, smug, bored etc. ---------------------------------------------------------------- You are NOT new to Emacs. But you are NEW to this forum. So we really don't what Emanuel is. We have a new fellow in the boxing ring and we are all afraid how his punches are going to be. That's all. It's just anxiety, nothing else. ---------------------------------------------------------------- Please stick to the topic of the thread and just stick to talking about Emacs. If one needs to become a better Technology then one should improves his focus and also the partner's focus. I hope you understand what you I am trying to say. You should help your partner focus better. This you can do only if you improve your own focus. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 56+ messages in thread
* Re: don't show the $-bar that indicates text before and/or after the window view, horizontally 2013-07-25 19:04 ` Jambunathan K @ 2013-07-26 13:34 ` Stefan Monnier 2013-07-27 12:30 ` Chris Van Dusen [not found] ` <mailman.1840.1374845680.12400.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org> 1 sibling, 1 reply; 56+ messages in thread From: Stefan Monnier @ 2013-07-26 13:34 UTC (permalink / raw To: help-gnu-emacs Hello guys! What's the weather like this morning? Stefan ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 56+ messages in thread
* Re: don't show the $-bar that indicates text before and/or after the window view, horizontally 2013-07-26 13:34 ` Stefan Monnier @ 2013-07-27 12:30 ` Chris Van Dusen 0 siblings, 0 replies; 56+ messages in thread From: Chris Van Dusen @ 2013-07-27 12:30 UTC (permalink / raw To: Stefan Monnier; +Cc: help-gnu-emacs On Jul 26, 2013, at 8:34 AM, Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> wrote: > > Hello guys! > > What's the weather like this morning? > > > Stefan > > Partly sunny with a chance for smiles! Chris. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 56+ messages in thread
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* Re: don't show the $-bar that indicates text before and/or after the window view, horizontally [not found] ` <mailman.1840.1374845680.12400.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org> @ 2013-07-26 16:50 ` Rustom Mody 2013-07-26 17:01 ` Drew Adams [not found] ` <mailman.1867.1374858127.12400.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org> 0 siblings, 2 replies; 56+ messages in thread From: Rustom Mody @ 2013-07-26 16:50 UTC (permalink / raw To: help-gnu-emacs On Friday, July 26, 2013 7:04:20 PM UTC+5:30, Stefan Monnier wrote: > Hello guys! > > What's the weather like this morning? > > > Stefan Cool and bracing! Coming for a jog? Well... Actually when I look out I find its night. You say its morning. How to settle this? Just learnt of a new technology for unambiguously resolving non-determinate questions -- its called boxing ring. You and I get in. If you give me a black eye, I'll agree its morning. If I give you a black eye, you must agree its night. What say? ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 56+ messages in thread
* RE: don't show the $-bar that indicates text before and/or after the window view, horizontally 2013-07-26 16:50 ` Rustom Mody @ 2013-07-26 17:01 ` Drew Adams [not found] ` <mailman.1867.1374858127.12400.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org> 1 sibling, 0 replies; 56+ messages in thread From: Drew Adams @ 2013-07-26 17:01 UTC (permalink / raw To: Rustom Mody, help-gnu-emacs > If you give me a black eye, I'll agree its morning. > If I give you a black eye, you must agree its night. With a black enough eye it is always night for the black-eye-ee. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 56+ messages in thread
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* Re: don't show the $-bar that indicates text before and/or after the window view, horizontally [not found] ` <mailman.1867.1374858127.12400.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org> @ 2013-07-26 17:12 ` Rustom Mody 0 siblings, 0 replies; 56+ messages in thread From: Rustom Mody @ 2013-07-26 17:12 UTC (permalink / raw To: help-gnu-emacs On Friday, July 26, 2013 10:31:59 PM UTC+5:30, Drew Adams wrote: > > If you give me a black eye, I'll agree its morning. > > > If I give you a black eye, you must agree its night. > > > With a black enough eye it is always night for the black-eye-ee. Heh! Drew's version of Godel's theorem: If I win I win, if I lose i win! ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 56+ messages in thread
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* Re: don't show the $-bar that indicates text before and/or after the window view, horizontally [not found] ` <mailman.1748.1374749649.12400.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org> @ 2013-07-25 12:07 ` Rustom Mody 2013-07-25 17:13 ` Emanuel Berg 1 sibling, 0 replies; 56+ messages in thread From: Rustom Mody @ 2013-07-25 12:07 UTC (permalink / raw To: help-gnu-emacs On Thursday, July 25, 2013 4:25:38 PM UTC+5:30, Jambunathan K wrote: > Here is a small story, that quickly summarizes what "skill"ed means. > Educational, for young and old farts alike. Nice one :-) > We don't want to drive Emanuel away. I hope he sticks around in this > list and helps others with their queries. Heartily agree. emacs REALLY needs young blood. > I care little for the old farts who show no tolerance for enthusiasm of > an young man. > > I find Emanuel enthusiastic (and a bit chirpy) but definitely not > arrogant. He has shown his Emacs Lisp snippets and I have no doubt that > he has good working knowledge of Emacs. I dont see where the questions of enthusiasm or arrogance come. Just some elders getting fed-up with young-uns that dont listen… ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 56+ messages in thread
* Re: don't show the $-bar that indicates text before and/or after the window view, horizontally [not found] ` <mailman.1748.1374749649.12400.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org> 2013-07-25 12:07 ` Rustom Mody @ 2013-07-25 17:13 ` Emanuel Berg 1 sibling, 0 replies; 56+ messages in thread From: Emanuel Berg @ 2013-07-25 17:13 UTC (permalink / raw To: help-gnu-emacs Jambunathan K <kjambunathan@gmail.com> writes: > I hope he sticks around in this list and helps others with their > queries. I don't know my question/answer ratio, but I can guarantee you (and everyone else) that I never hesitate to help. Especially in my early days here, I wrote lots of answers. But I think that is coincidence, and related to the questions/problems discussed, and not me being "tilted". No, I'm not going anywhere! -- Emanuel Berg - programmer (hire me! CV below) computer projects: http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573 internet activity: http://home.student.uu.se/embe8573 ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 56+ messages in thread
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* Re: don't show the $-bar that indicates text before and/or after the window view, horizontally [not found] ` <mailman.1771.1374770675.12400.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org> @ 2013-07-25 17:23 ` Emanuel Berg 2013-07-25 17:42 ` Eli Zaretskii [not found] ` <mailman.1772.1374774190.12400.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org> 0 siblings, 2 replies; 56+ messages in thread From: Emanuel Berg @ 2013-07-25 17:23 UTC (permalink / raw To: help-gnu-emacs Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes: > I don't understand why you say that. There was nothing rude or > "rough" in what I wrote, not a single rude or offensive word. > > I gave a comprehensive answer to the OP's questions. I then > suggested, given his apparent lack of knowledge about the stuff > being discussed, to read about that in the manuals. Since not > knowing something is not something one should be ashamed of, how > can a _suggestion_ to learn about that be "rude"? And if it > _is_ considered rude, I wonder what isn't. I'm not ashamed of anything. What you said was basically: "You should read, and as you don't even understand A, you shouldn't mess with B, that's too advanced." (pseudo-quote, but that's what you said) But (1) I've read, and I'll read more, (2) I was in the process of understanding A (at least that of A that mattered for the issue at hand), and (3) I still don't believe B is particularly advanced or in any way beyond my (or anyone else's) level. That makes it even more rude, but even if you were absolutely right - I think you should never, ever discourage activity. Activity is the basis of everything. Discourage from alcoholism, street fighting, etc., but not from people being active with technology. I can't see that ever being the right thing to do. -- Emanuel Berg - programmer (hire me! CV below) computer projects: http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573 internet activity: http://home.student.uu.se/embe8573 ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 56+ messages in thread
* Re: don't show the $-bar that indicates text before and/or after the window view, horizontally 2013-07-25 17:23 ` Emanuel Berg @ 2013-07-25 17:42 ` Eli Zaretskii [not found] ` <mailman.1772.1374774190.12400.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org> 1 sibling, 0 replies; 56+ messages in thread From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2013-07-25 17:42 UTC (permalink / raw To: help-gnu-emacs > From: Emanuel Berg <embe8573@student.uu.se> > Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2013 19:23:14 +0200 > > What you said was basically: > > "You should read, and as you don't even understand A, you > shouldn't mess with B, that's too advanced." (pseudo-quote, but > that's what you said) I said nothing of the kind. What I said was basically "It's quite clear that you don't understand the issues discussed here, so I suggest to go read about that, and then you'd probably understand much better the solutions proposed to you." > That makes it even more rude, but even if you were absolutely > right - I think you should never, ever discourage > activity. I never discouraged anything. On the contrary, I _encouraged_ you to learn more, and, by providing the solution and its explanation, also encouraged you to continue your activities, whatever they are, having gained some more insight than what you had before. "Rude"? how about some "thank you" for a change? You are welcome, btw. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 56+ messages in thread
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* Re: don't show the $-bar that indicates text before and/or after the window view, horizontally [not found] ` <mailman.1772.1374774190.12400.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org> @ 2013-07-25 18:02 ` Emanuel Berg 2013-07-25 18:41 ` Eli Zaretskii ` (2 more replies) 2013-07-25 18:06 ` Rustom Mody 1 sibling, 3 replies; 56+ messages in thread From: Emanuel Berg @ 2013-07-25 18:02 UTC (permalink / raw To: help-gnu-emacs Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes: >> What you said was basically: >> >> "You should read, and as you don't even understand A, you >> shouldn't mess with B, that's too advanced." (pseudo-quote, but >> that's what you said) > > I said nothing of the kind. What I said was basically "It's > quite clear that you don't understand the issues discussed here, > so I suggest to go read about that, and then you'd probably > understand much better the solutions proposed to you." I don't believe that. I think my summary is much more accurate. Anyone can hit the archive and make up their own minds. But, the past is the past. I'm done if you are. But - even what you write now: apart from some confusion regarding TTY/X terminal Emacs vs. X GUI Emacs, my understanding grew by the post - which is natural - and how could it be in any other way? If the person asking a question already understood everything about it, why ask? -- Emanuel Berg - programmer (hire me! CV below) computer projects: http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573 internet activity: http://home.student.uu.se/embe8573 ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 56+ messages in thread
* Re: don't show the $-bar that indicates text before and/or after the window view, horizontally 2013-07-25 18:02 ` Emanuel Berg @ 2013-07-25 18:41 ` Eli Zaretskii [not found] ` <mailman.1776.1374777727.12400.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org> 2013-07-25 21:50 ` Bob Proulx 2 siblings, 0 replies; 56+ messages in thread From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2013-07-25 18:41 UTC (permalink / raw To: help-gnu-emacs > From: Emanuel Berg <embe8573@student.uu.se> > Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2013 20:02:31 +0200 > > Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes: > > >> What you said was basically: > >> > >> "You should read, and as you don't even understand A, you > >> shouldn't mess with B, that's too advanced." (pseudo-quote, but > >> that's what you said) > > > > I said nothing of the kind. What I said was basically "It's > > quite clear that you don't understand the issues discussed here, > > so I suggest to go read about that, and then you'd probably > > understand much better the solutions proposed to you." > > I don't believe that. I think my summary is much more > accurate. I've told you what I meant. No one else can know that better than I do. > But - even what you write now: apart from some confusion regarding > TTY/X terminal Emacs vs. X GUI Emacs, my understanding grew by the > post - which is natural - and how could it be in any other way? If > the person asking a question already understood everything about > it, why ask? I didn't say you shouldn't ask. I answered your questions. What I'm saying is that there's a limit to what can be explained in a message posted to a forum. The manual has much more. You'd rob yourself if you limit your learning to what people say here, even if we assume, wrongly, that no one of them is ever mistaken. Not only will you learn more from the documentation, your questions will become deeper, more sophisticated, and more interesting to answer. It's your call. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 56+ messages in thread
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* Re: don't show the $-bar that indicates text before and/or after the window view, horizontally [not found] ` <mailman.1776.1374777727.12400.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org> @ 2013-07-25 18:49 ` Emanuel Berg 2013-07-25 19:16 ` Jambunathan K 0 siblings, 1 reply; 56+ messages in thread From: Emanuel Berg @ 2013-07-25 18:49 UTC (permalink / raw To: help-gnu-emacs Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes: >> I don't believe that. I think my summary is much more accurate. > > I've told you what I meant. No one else can know that better > than I do. Let's drop that discussion, OK? The archive doesn't lie and anyone can hit it if there is such a strange desire, and make up their own minds if that was rude or not. > What I'm saying is that there's a limit to what can be explained > in a message posted to a forum. The manual has much more. > You'd rob yourself if you limit your learning to what people say > here, even if we assume, wrongly, that no one of them is ever > mistaken. Not only will you learn more from the documentation, > your questions will become deeper, more sophisticated, and more > interesting to answer. Absolutely, and I read what I can find. But, I *still* don't think it is a good answer to any question - "read the manual" - I just don't think that is productive. -- Emanuel Berg - programmer (hire me! CV below) computer projects: http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573 internet activity: http://home.student.uu.se/embe8573 ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 56+ messages in thread
* Re: don't show the $-bar that indicates text before and/or after the window view, horizontally 2013-07-25 18:49 ` Emanuel Berg @ 2013-07-25 19:16 ` Jambunathan K 0 siblings, 0 replies; 56+ messages in thread From: Jambunathan K @ 2013-07-25 19:16 UTC (permalink / raw To: Emanuel Berg; +Cc: help-gnu-emacs Emanuel Berg <embe8573@student.uu.se> writes: > But, I *still* don't think it is a good answer to any question - "read > the manual" - I just don't think that is productive. Yes, one shouldn't say "read the manual". But do you want Eli or anyone else to Copy-Paste the whole manual for you. That will not be helpful. Eli helped you. You should read the manual whether Eli says or it not. If you tinker with gadgets but have never seen the spec sheet, then your claims will be seen as bogus. The only way to convince would be to show that you have read the relevant parts of the manual and understood it. We are also Technologist. Remember that. If someone says, "I know X", we don't immediately say "Wonderful!". We simply say "Prove it" or "Show me the patch". This is simply how Technologist talk and work. It is this very attitude that makes us all Technologists. You shouldn't be upset with it or be offended with such a response. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 56+ messages in thread
* Re: don't show the $-bar that indicates text before and/or after the window view, horizontally 2013-07-25 18:02 ` Emanuel Berg 2013-07-25 18:41 ` Eli Zaretskii [not found] ` <mailman.1776.1374777727.12400.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org> @ 2013-07-25 21:50 ` Bob Proulx 2 siblings, 0 replies; 56+ messages in thread From: Bob Proulx @ 2013-07-25 21:50 UTC (permalink / raw To: help-gnu-emacs Emanuel Berg wrote: > Anyone can hit the archive and make up their own > minds. But, the past is the past. I'm done if you are. Anyone searching the archive will find that Eli Zaretskii has a very long and distinguished history of contributing positively to the Emacs project, as well as others. I always pay special attention to his postings. I often learn very useful things from them. Bob ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 56+ messages in thread
* Re: don't show the $-bar that indicates text before and/or after the window view, horizontally [not found] ` <mailman.1772.1374774190.12400.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org> 2013-07-25 18:02 ` Emanuel Berg @ 2013-07-25 18:06 ` Rustom Mody 2013-07-25 18:25 ` Emanuel Berg ` (2 more replies) 1 sibling, 3 replies; 56+ messages in thread From: Rustom Mody @ 2013-07-25 18:06 UTC (permalink / raw To: help-gnu-emacs On Thursday, July 25, 2013 10:13:35 PM UTC+5:30, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > > Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2013 03:34:41 -0700 (PDT) > > From: Rustom Mody > > > > Ok Eli spoke more roughly/rudely than necessary. > > I don't understand why you say that. There was nothing rude or > "rough" in what I wrote, not a single rude or offensive word. In human communication there are two orthogonal dimensions: - the factual/predicative line - the emotive rapport/empathy line As for the first, whatever you say is true. And it is more or less what I said. As for the second if you read your last parenthetical note, you will hopefully see that the 'even' packs rather a hard punch. No dont get me wrong -- if you feel it necessary to pack that punch, thats ok. In any case I am the guy who 'pulls rank' :-). In my book thats not abusive nor complimentary, just facts of how civilized life runs. On this list this means that guys like you, Juanma etc are the givers, guys like Emanuel,me* are the receivers. This has two sides: 1. You know the stuff, we generally dont 2. You make the stuff, we (mostly thanklessly) use it. So if that means that you say "Piss off!" to someone, you are entitled and that someone should lump it. Well so much for the micro/individual level. At the macro level, emacs needs Emanuel (and a few hundred more such) more than the Emanuel^100 need emacs**. Keeping that in mind, just consider this a humble*** request to handle over-sensitive noobs with kid-gloves. * Yeah the irony of how Emanuel sees the ganging up!! ** And the double irony. Being an old-fart-user myself I fall neatly between two stools -- Neither a dev nor an enthu kid. *** Yeah! I pull rank at every point :-) > I gave a comprehensive answer to the OP's questions. I then > suggested, given his apparent lack of knowledge about the stuff being > discussed, to read about that in the manuals. Since not knowing > something is not something one should be ashamed of, Yeah that certainly seems to be the problem here: "unskilled" is being heard as an abuse. ------------- To Emanuel: My apologies for anything that I said which caused hurt. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 56+ messages in thread
* Re: don't show the $-bar that indicates text before and/or after the window view, horizontally 2013-07-25 18:06 ` Rustom Mody @ 2013-07-25 18:25 ` Emanuel Berg 2013-07-25 18:46 ` Jambunathan K [not found] ` <mailman.1777.1374777912.12400.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org> 2013-07-25 18:48 ` Eli Zaretskii [not found] ` <mailman.1778.1374778124.12400.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org> 2 siblings, 2 replies; 56+ messages in thread From: Emanuel Berg @ 2013-07-25 18:25 UTC (permalink / raw To: help-gnu-emacs Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> writes: > On this list this means that guys like you, Juanma etc are the > givers, guys like Emanuel,me* are the receivers. Wrong. 1) I've written answers as well. I don't know how to compute a ratio, if possible, but I've been active on lots of places. Here http://unix.stackexchange.com/users/13136/emanuel-berg you see that I have 74 answers, to 62 questions. I haven't changed my personality since I left that site, so I suspect I have a fairly even ratio here. (Except for all this meta discussion.) 2) Even if I were only asking questions, there is nothing egoistic about that, because the questions and everything is public. I usually include all my preceding efforts (usually Elisp), and I don't doubt that people read my questions, and the subsequent discussion, and learn from the whole process, from the question to the last answer. > This has two sides: 1. You know the stuff, we generally dont > 2. You make the stuff, we (mostly thanklessly) use it. Wrong. I know stuff, and I make stuff. > So if that means that you say "Piss off!" to someone, you are > entitled and that someone should lump it. Wrong. You should never be rude and especially not when people are productive. There is no balance. You can't do some good things, and then expect to get away with bad things. > ... just consider this a humble*** request to handle > over-sensitive noobs with kid-gloves. Completely unheard of...! You are such a *jerk*! -- Emanuel Berg - programmer (hire me! CV below) computer projects: http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573 internet activity: http://home.student.uu.se/embe8573 ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 56+ messages in thread
* Re: don't show the $-bar that indicates text before and/or after the window view, horizontally 2013-07-25 18:25 ` Emanuel Berg @ 2013-07-25 18:46 ` Jambunathan K [not found] ` <mailman.1777.1374777912.12400.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org> 1 sibling, 0 replies; 56+ messages in thread From: Jambunathan K @ 2013-07-25 18:46 UTC (permalink / raw To: Emanuel Berg; +Cc: help-gnu-emacs Emanuel Emanuel Berg <embe8573@student.uu.se> writes: > 1) I've written answers as well. I don't know how to compute a > ratio, if possible, but I've been active on lots of places. Here > > http://unix.stackexchange.com/users/13136/emanuel-berg > > you see that I have 74 answers, to 62 questions. I haven't changed > my personality since I left that site, so I suspect I have a > fairly even ratio here. (Except for all this meta discussion.) Just log out of stackexchange and stackoverflow. Forget about your reputation. Come over to the Emacs official forums. I assure you will become a better Technologist. In this forum, there are folks who have used punch cards. I don't think SE or SO can boast of such *veteran* users. Btw, helping Emacs *even* in other forums is good. But being present on the official forum is altogether a different experience. ps: I am surprised to see a kick boxer who is shy of taking punches that were given in good spirit. Remember, you have had your share of punches at others. Let's all retire from the boxing ring, smile, shake hands, have a cup of chocolate. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 56+ messages in thread
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* Re: don't show the $-bar that indicates text before and/or after the window view, horizontally [not found] ` <mailman.1777.1374777912.12400.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org> @ 2013-07-25 18:53 ` Emanuel Berg 2013-07-25 19:33 ` Jambunathan K 0 siblings, 1 reply; 56+ messages in thread From: Emanuel Berg @ 2013-07-25 18:53 UTC (permalink / raw To: help-gnu-emacs Jambunathan K <kjambunathan@gmail.com> writes: > Just log out of stackexchange and stackoverflow. Forget about > your reputation. Come over to the Emacs official forums. I > assure you will become a better Technologist. > > In this forum, there are folks who have used punch cards. I > don't think SE or SO can boast of such *veteran* users. > > Btw, helping Emacs *even* in other forums is good. But being > present on the official forum is altogether a different > experience. I have dropped all those sites for those and other reasons. I like Usenet so much more because I can use Gnus: configurable in Elisp, a text-only interface, and all the common cursor-movement (etc.) shortcuts from Emacs. And, all the other things that I don't like with those SX sites (reputation, no side-threads, etc.) > ps: I am surprised to see a kick boxer who is shy of taking > punches that were given in good spirit. Remember, you have had > your share of punches at others. Let's all retire from the > boxing ring, smile, shake hands, have a cup of chocolate. Yes! Please, stop. -- Emanuel Berg - programmer (hire me! CV below) computer projects: http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573 internet activity: http://home.student.uu.se/embe8573 ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 56+ messages in thread
* Re: don't show the $-bar that indicates text before and/or after the window view, horizontally 2013-07-25 18:53 ` Emanuel Berg @ 2013-07-25 19:33 ` Jambunathan K 0 siblings, 0 replies; 56+ messages in thread From: Jambunathan K @ 2013-07-25 19:33 UTC (permalink / raw To: Emanuel Berg; +Cc: help-gnu-emacs > I have dropped all those sites for those and other reasons. I like > Usenet so much more because I can use Gnus: configurable in Elisp, > a text-only interface, and all the common cursor-movement (etc.) > shortcuts from Emacs. And, all the other things that I don't like > with those SX sites (reputation, no side-threads, etc.) Good decision. >> ps: I am surprised to see a kick boxer who is shy of taking >> punches that were given in good spirit. Remember, you have had >> your share of punches at others. Let's all retire from the >> boxing ring, smile, shake hands, have a cup of chocolate. > > Yes! Please, stop. Ok, I will. Look at the tips that I offered you and share it with others if you find it helpful. I will be happy that way. I am too old to give or take punches. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 56+ messages in thread
* Re: don't show the $-bar that indicates text before and/or after the window view, horizontally 2013-07-25 18:06 ` Rustom Mody 2013-07-25 18:25 ` Emanuel Berg @ 2013-07-25 18:48 ` Eli Zaretskii [not found] ` <mailman.1778.1374778124.12400.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org> 2 siblings, 0 replies; 56+ messages in thread From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2013-07-25 18:48 UTC (permalink / raw To: help-gnu-emacs > Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2013 11:06:54 -0700 (PDT) > From: Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> > > So if that means that you say "Piss off!" to someone, you are entitled and that someone should lump it. It could have been interpreted as "Piss off!" if I wrote _only_ the last remark. But I didn't. I answered the questions _first_. > Yeah that certainly seems to be the problem here: "unskilled" is being heard as an abuse. It shouldn't be. No one is born with knowledge, so everyone is "unskilled" at some point about something. Being pointed to the fact that one doesn't know something is not a shame and not an offense. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 56+ messages in thread
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* Re: don't show the $-bar that indicates text before and/or after the window view, horizontally [not found] ` <mailman.1778.1374778124.12400.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org> @ 2013-07-25 18:55 ` Emanuel Berg 2013-07-25 21:51 ` broken thread (was: don't show the $-bar that...) Nicolas Richard 0 siblings, 1 reply; 56+ messages in thread From: Emanuel Berg @ 2013-07-25 18:55 UTC (permalink / raw To: help-gnu-emacs Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes: > It could have been interpreted as "Piss off!" if I wrote _only_ the > last remark. But I didn't. I answered the questions _first_. That doesn't matter. There is no balance. If you are rude, it doesn't matter if you were nice all day before you turned rude. >> Yeah that certainly seems to be the problem here: "unskilled" >> is being heard as an abuse. > > It shouldn't be. No one is born with knowledge, so everyone is > "unskilled" at some point about something. Being pointed to the > fact that one doesn't know something is not a shame and not an > offense. I agree, but that's not what happened, and was never my point. -- Emanuel Berg - programmer (hire me! CV below) computer projects: http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573 internet activity: http://home.student.uu.se/embe8573 ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 56+ messages in thread
* broken thread (was: don't show the $-bar that...) 2013-07-25 18:55 ` Emanuel Berg @ 2013-07-25 21:51 ` Nicolas Richard 0 siblings, 0 replies; 56+ messages in thread From: Nicolas Richard @ 2013-07-25 21:51 UTC (permalink / raw To: Emanuel Berg; +Cc: help-gnu-emacs Emanuel Berg <embe8573@student.uu.se> writes: > Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes: > >> It could have been interpreted as "Piss off!" if I wrote _only_ the >> last remark. But I didn't. I answered the questions _first_. > > That doesn't matter. There is no balance. If you are rude, it > doesn't matter if you were nice all day before you turned rude. I don't think it's a question of balance. I could elaborate a little bit, but IMO it's beside the point anyway. What I want to say is : if he says there was no rudeness involved, you don't lose much (if anything) by trusting him. As hard as can be, you should assume good faith for some time before deciding that someone is actually insulting you. Maybe you still think that it *felt* rude, but then you should feel relieved, now that you know it wasn't meant to be rude. Ok, now I have a problem : this thread looks broken on my Gnus. What can be done to avoid this state ? e.g. when on the message I'm now responding to, I can't get to its parent using "A r" in gnus. It seems also broken on the web archive at http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/help-gnu-emacs/2013-07/msg00462.html -- Nico. [*] Obviously it should apply to many people, including myself. Well, I find it incredibly hard to follow this. Even with close relatives. This is off topic though. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 56+ messages in thread
* Re: don't show the $-bar that indicates text before and/or after the window view, horizontally 2013-07-25 7:52 ` Emanuel Berg ` (2 preceding siblings ...) 2013-07-25 10:34 ` Rustom Mody @ 2013-07-25 11:40 ` Jambunathan K [not found] ` <mailman.1752.1374752366.12400.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org> 4 siblings, 0 replies; 56+ messages in thread From: Jambunathan K @ 2013-07-25 11:40 UTC (permalink / raw To: Emanuel Berg; +Cc: help-gnu-emacs Emanuel Berg <embe8573@student.uu.se> writes: > skilled individual Here is a small story, that quickly summarizes what "skill"ed means. Educational, for young and old farts alike. ,---- Source: http://users.rider.edu/~suler/zenstory/concentrate.html | | After winning several archery contests, the young and rather boastful | champion challenged a Zen master who was renowned for his skill as an | archer. The young man demonstrated remarkable technical proficiency | when he hit a distant bull's eye on his first try, and then split that | arrow with his second shot. "There," he said to the old man, "see if | you can match that!" Undisturbed, the master did not draw his bow, but | rather motioned for the young archer to follow him up the | mountain. Curious about the old fellow's intentions, the champion | followed him high into the mountain until they reached a deep chasm | spanned by a rather flimsy and shaky log. Calmly stepping out onto the | middle of the unsteady and certainly perilous bridge, the old master | picked a far away tree as a target, drew his bow, and fired a clean, | direct hit. "Now it is your turn," he said as he gracefully stepped | back onto the safe ground. Staring with terror into the seemingly | bottomless and beckoning abyss, the young man could not force himself | to step out onto the log, no less shoot at a target. "You have much | skill with your bow," the master said, sensing his challenger's | predicament, "but you have little skill with the mind that lets loose | the shot." | `---- ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 56+ messages in thread
[parent not found: <mailman.1752.1374752366.12400.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>]
* Re: don't show the $-bar that indicates text before and/or after the window view, horizontally [not found] ` <mailman.1752.1374752366.12400.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org> @ 2013-07-25 17:36 ` Emanuel Berg 0 siblings, 0 replies; 56+ messages in thread From: Emanuel Berg @ 2013-07-25 17:36 UTC (permalink / raw To: help-gnu-emacs Jambunathan K <kjambunathan@gmail.com> writes: > Here is a small story, that quickly summarizes what "skill"ed > means. Educational, for young and old farts alike. Yes, they are both skilled. It is a tie, because the old guy didn't do what the young guy did, either. But, to break the tie, to me, the young guy won, because the young guy followed the old guy up the mountain. The old guy didn't even bother visiting the young guy's "domain". -- Emanuel Berg - programmer (hire me! CV below) computer projects: http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573 internet activity: http://home.student.uu.se/embe8573 ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 56+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2013-07-27 12:30 UTC | newest] Thread overview: 56+ messages (download: mbox.gz follow: Atom feed -- links below jump to the message on this page -- 2013-07-23 18:13 don't show the $-bar that indicates text before and/or after the window view, horizontally Emanuel Berg 2013-07-24 1:49 ` Michael Heerdegen [not found] ` <mailman.1674.1374630606.12400.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org> 2013-07-24 17:10 ` Emanuel Berg 2013-07-24 17:16 ` Damien Wyart 2013-07-24 17:32 ` Emanuel Berg 2013-07-24 17:53 ` Eli Zaretskii [not found] ` <mailman.1719.1374695805.12400.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org> 2013-07-24 21:13 ` Emanuel Berg 2013-07-24 23:35 ` Drew Adams [not found] ` <mailman.1726.1374708932.12400.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org> 2013-07-25 0:58 ` Emanuel Berg 2013-07-25 2:14 ` Thien-Thi Nguyen [not found] ` <<8338r3x2ta.fsf@gnu.org> 2013-07-24 19:56 ` Drew Adams [not found] ` <mailman.1716.1374688401.12400.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org> 2013-07-24 21:06 ` Emanuel Berg 2013-07-24 21:35 ` Juanma Barranquero [not found] ` <mailman.1723.1374701789.12400.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org> 2013-07-24 22:58 ` Emanuel Berg 2013-07-24 23:22 ` Juanma Barranquero [not found] ` <mailman.1725.1374708201.12400.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org> 2013-07-24 23:26 ` Emanuel Berg 2013-07-25 5:09 ` Rustom Mody 2013-07-25 7:52 ` Emanuel Berg 2013-07-25 7:59 ` Juanma Barranquero [not found] ` <mailman.1736.1374739225.12400.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org> 2013-07-25 8:04 ` Emanuel Berg 2013-07-25 8:12 ` Juanma Barranquero [not found] ` <mailman.1739.1374739991.12400.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org> 2013-07-25 9:06 ` Emanuel Berg 2013-07-25 9:40 ` Jambunathan K 2013-07-25 10:47 ` Juanma Barranquero [not found] ` <mailman.1747.1374749300.12400.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org> 2013-07-25 17:06 ` Emanuel Berg 2013-07-25 10:34 ` Rustom Mody 2013-07-25 10:55 ` Jambunathan K 2013-07-25 16:43 ` Eli Zaretskii 2013-07-25 16:59 ` Emanuel Berg 2013-07-25 18:20 ` Jambunathan K [not found] ` <mailman.1773.1374776354.12400.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org> 2013-07-25 18:33 ` Emanuel Berg 2013-07-25 19:04 ` Jambunathan K 2013-07-26 13:34 ` Stefan Monnier 2013-07-27 12:30 ` Chris Van Dusen [not found] ` <mailman.1840.1374845680.12400.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org> 2013-07-26 16:50 ` Rustom Mody 2013-07-26 17:01 ` Drew Adams [not found] ` <mailman.1867.1374858127.12400.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org> 2013-07-26 17:12 ` Rustom Mody [not found] ` <mailman.1748.1374749649.12400.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org> 2013-07-25 12:07 ` Rustom Mody 2013-07-25 17:13 ` Emanuel Berg [not found] ` <mailman.1771.1374770675.12400.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org> 2013-07-25 17:23 ` Emanuel Berg 2013-07-25 17:42 ` Eli Zaretskii [not found] ` <mailman.1772.1374774190.12400.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org> 2013-07-25 18:02 ` Emanuel Berg 2013-07-25 18:41 ` Eli Zaretskii [not found] ` <mailman.1776.1374777727.12400.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org> 2013-07-25 18:49 ` Emanuel Berg 2013-07-25 19:16 ` Jambunathan K 2013-07-25 21:50 ` Bob Proulx 2013-07-25 18:06 ` Rustom Mody 2013-07-25 18:25 ` Emanuel Berg 2013-07-25 18:46 ` Jambunathan K [not found] ` <mailman.1777.1374777912.12400.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org> 2013-07-25 18:53 ` Emanuel Berg 2013-07-25 19:33 ` Jambunathan K 2013-07-25 18:48 ` Eli Zaretskii [not found] ` <mailman.1778.1374778124.12400.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org> 2013-07-25 18:55 ` Emanuel Berg 2013-07-25 21:51 ` broken thread (was: don't show the $-bar that...) Nicolas Richard 2013-07-25 11:40 ` don't show the $-bar that indicates text before and/or after the window view, horizontally Jambunathan K [not found] ` <mailman.1752.1374752366.12400.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org> 2013-07-25 17:36 ` Emanuel Berg
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