From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Andrew Kurn Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#11440: E-Lisp manual - customization Date: Tue, 8 May 2012 18:54:03 -0700 Message-ID: <20120509015403.GD11715@sfu.ca> References: <201205090138.q491caAs023526@pobox.sfu.ca> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1336528501 412 80.91.229.3 (9 May 2012 01:55:01 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 9 May 2012 01:55:01 +0000 (UTC) To: 11440@debbugs.gnu.org Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed May 09 03:55:00 2012 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1SRw7G-0004rf-OQ for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Wed, 09 May 2012 03:54:58 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:38136 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1SRw7G-0000UP-5E for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; 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Tue, 08 May 2012 21:54:12 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1SRw6T-00038p-Cr for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 08 May 2012 21:54:10 -0400 Original-Received: from pobox.sfu.ca ([142.58.101.28]:45514) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1SRw6T-000381-4l for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 08 May 2012 21:54:09 -0400 Original-Received: from fraser.sfu.ca (fraser.sfu.ca [142.58.101.25]) by pobox.sfu.ca (8.13.6/8.13.5/SFU-6.0G) with ESMTP id q491s4WR025194 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 8 May 2012 18:54:05 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: (from kurn@localhost) by fraser.sfu.ca (8.13.8+Sun/8.14.3/SFU-6.0C) id q491s3NG024656 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 8 May 2012 18:54:03 -0700 (PDT) Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <201205090138.q491caAs023526@pobox.sfu.ca> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.20 (2009-06-14) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Solaris 10 (beta) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) X-Received-From: 140.186.70.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:59880 Archived-At: > > (In E-Lisp) I find myself confused by the treatment of Customization and Faces . . . > > I find the chapter in the E-Lisp manual on /Customization/ problematic. It seems > to be directed at the user-level and not programmer-level. > > Ideally, it should start out by saying what a customization is actually before > it ever gets around to defining "Common Keywords" and other ad-hoc machinery. > So, the first paragraph of the chapter should have a careful definition with > links to the thingies that a customization is made of or works on. > > I would like a link to "user options" at least, and one to self-quoting > variables (eg :slant) would help. > > --- > > Please tell me when customization takes place. Faces seem to be > synthesized from customization data magically, in some way beyond > my control. > > > --- > > Similarly, the section /Faces/ in /Display/. > > I would start with /Attribute Functions/, so that the machinery that > does the work is exposed, then /Standard Faces/ and /Face Attributes/ > so that we see what the machinery works on, then /Defining F/, which > is customization, and attempts to insulate programmers from making > mistakes. > > Inserting customization too early makes the exposition confusing, > makes it hard to see what is fundamental. The mistake I made was modifying > the customization properties of faces, rather than the faces themselves. > > (In my present mood, I would remove customization from Emacs completely, > although I can imagine some would be upset. Still, I wonder what its > real value is, how many actually need it and use it.) > > --- > > That's my rant for today, > > Andrew > >