From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Alan Mackenzie Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: quotation marks [was Re: TUTORIAL.de updated] Date: Sat, 21 Jan 2012 08:59:05 +0000 Message-ID: <20120121085905.GA3075@acm.acm> References: <20120118.161204.348826368.wl@gnu.org> <20248.15413.907023.894588@a1i15.kph.uni-mainz.de> <4x1uqv4pbx.fsf_-_@fencepost.gnu.org> <056566D61BA5441E860782777E736F44@us.oracle.com> <4F18A26A.1020402@cs.ucla.edu> <20120120074922.GA3095@acm.acm> <4F1929BA.7020004@cs.ucla.edu> <838vl24thl.fsf@gnu.org> <4F19E7FC.40301@cs.ucla.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1327136359 23119 80.91.229.12 (21 Jan 2012 08:59:19 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 21 Jan 2012 08:59:19 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Eli Zaretskii , ulm@gentoo.org, drew.adams@oracle.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Paul Eggert Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Jan 21 09:59:14 2012 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([140.186.70.17]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1RoWn1-0007g6-2e for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 21 Jan 2012 09:59:11 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:51605 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RoWn0-0007jU-8Z for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 21 Jan 2012 03:59:10 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.92]:42024) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RoWmu-0007jM-Mh for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 21 Jan 2012 03:59:08 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RoWmp-0002Qs-Ni for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 21 Jan 2012 03:59:04 -0500 Original-Received: from colin.muc.de ([193.149.48.1]:24317 helo=mail.muc.de) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RoWmp-0002Qb-Do for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 21 Jan 2012 03:58:59 -0500 Original-Received: (qmail 74758 invoked by uid 3782); 21 Jan 2012 08:58:57 -0000 Original-Received: from acm.muc.de (pD95561F9.dip.t-dialin.net [217.85.97.249]) by colin.muc.de (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Sat, 21 Jan 2012 09:58:56 +0100 Original-Received: (qmail 3114 invoked by uid 1000); 21 Jan 2012 08:59:05 -0000 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <4F19E7FC.40301@cs.ucla.edu> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/1.1.12 (Macallan) X-Primary-Address: acm@muc.de X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 193.149.48.1 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:147806 Archived-At: Hi, Paul. On Fri, Jan 20, 2012 at 02:17:32PM -0800, Paul Eggert wrote: > On 01/20/2012 01:24 AM, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > Those messages are about using ASCII-only email, or having Emacs not > unexpectedly insert Unicode characters into an ASCII-only document, > or things of that sort, things that are about Emacs users in general. > Those are all valid issues, but they don't contradict the basic point > that it's becoming less important to cater to ASCII-only development > environments. Sorry, but that's a philosophical point that cannot pass without challenge. Because fewer people are using tty environments (which is basically what is meant here by "ASCII-only") is it really "less important" to support them? Or is there some other reason? There are at least three Emacs developers who use a tty rather than a GUI. There are users who do the same. (Why use a GUI for pure text work, indeed?) To adapt a tty for random Unicode characters is a non-trivial amount of work. > We routinely place more requirements on Emacs developers than on Emacs users, > and in particular we assume that Emacs developers can routinely view and > otherwise deal with non-ASCII characters when they need to. This is not > an assumption we could have made 30 years ago, but it's a safe assumption > today. When I need to view one (which is rare), I use C-u C-x =. -- Alan Mackenzie (Nuremberg, Germany).