From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Alan Mackenzie Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Fundamental mode vs. special mode Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2011 20:49:16 +0000 Message-ID: <20111025204916.GB23228@acm.acm> References: <86sjmkvl80.fsf@googlemail.com> <86ehy3hi0o.fsf@googlemail.com> <87obx7jbrq.fsf@mail.jurta.org> <20111024171725.GA5094@acm.acm> <8739ehzst9.fsf@mail.jurta.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1319576061 8532 80.91.229.12 (25 Oct 2011 20:54:21 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2011 20:54:21 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Christoph Scholtes , Chong Yidong , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Juri Linkov Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Oct 25 22:54:16 2011 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([140.186.70.17]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1RIo0l-0004Vn-Ms for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 25 Oct 2011 22:54:15 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:46123 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RIo0l-0001eC-B7 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 25 Oct 2011 16:54:15 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.92]:47714) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RIo0i-0001dw-WE for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 25 Oct 2011 16:54:13 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RIo0i-0003Eq-0X for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 25 Oct 2011 16:54:12 -0400 Original-Received: from colin.muc.de ([193.149.48.1]:30622 helo=mail.muc.de) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RIo0h-0003EP-OD for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 25 Oct 2011 16:54:11 -0400 Original-Received: (qmail 24044 invoked by uid 3782); 25 Oct 2011 20:54:08 -0000 Original-Received: from acm.muc.de (pD9519AC3.dip.t-dialin.net [217.81.154.195]) by colin.muc.de (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Tue, 25 Oct 2011 22:54:04 +0200 Original-Received: (qmail 23427 invoked by uid 1000); 25 Oct 2011 20:49:16 -0000 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <8739ehzst9.fsf@mail.jurta.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/1.1.12 (Macallan) X-Primary-Address: acm@muc.de X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 193.149.48.1 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:145532 Archived-At: Hi, Juri. On Tue, Oct 25, 2011 at 07:30:18AM +0300, Juri Linkov wrote: > > In any mode, each key-sequence should do one well established thing, not > > performing alternate commands based on read-onlyness. Exceptions should > > be justified individually. > But in read-only buffers, self-inserting characters are useless, they > can't do what they are intended for. So why not allow them to do more > useful things, e.g. `q' to run `quit-window'? If by read-only buffers, you mean something like *info* or *Buffer List*, then I agree with you. But if we're talking about file buffers which happen to be RO at the moment, then no - self-inserting characters have the important function of beeping. If we're going to be switching from "editing mode" to "command mode" for self inserting keys (with C-x C-q or whatever), we might as well go the whole hog and use vi instead. Let's preserve the character of Emacs. > Actually this is what `view-read-only' does when set to non-nil. > I don't propose to change its default value to non-nil now, > but at least it's worth thinking about. view-mode is a distinct mode with its own distinct bindings. -- Alan Mackenzie (Nuremberg, Germany).