From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Alan Mackenzie Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#7291: 24.0.50; `non-essential' is incomprehensible Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2010 18:56:59 +0000 Message-ID: <20101029185659.GA3080@muc.de> References: <9499566E643B466092A98013C6826011@us.oracle.com> <3457CB74869B424BB0DB5A41C034AED7@us.oracle.com> <7908A4E9737248F79A9D74B584DAEAC9@us.oracle.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1288379604 6450 80.91.229.12 (29 Oct 2010 19:13:24 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2010 19:13:24 +0000 (UTC) Cc: 7291@debbugs.gnu.org To: Stefan Monnier Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Oct 29 21:13:22 2010 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1PBuO9-0003Rb-PC for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Fri, 29 Oct 2010 21:13:22 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:52605 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1PBuO9-0003nx-0K for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Fri, 29 Oct 2010 15:13:21 -0400 Original-Received: from [140.186.70.92] (port=41477 helo=eggs.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1PBuNy-0003mL-9P for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 29 Oct 2010 15:13:11 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1PBuNx-0007te-1X for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 29 Oct 2010 15:13:10 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.43]:58376) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1PBuNw-0007tY-WF for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 29 Oct 2010 15:13:09 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1PBtru-0005gs-T8; Fri, 29 Oct 2010 14:40:02 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Alan Mackenzie Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-To: owner@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2010 18:40:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 7291 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: Original-Received: via spool by 7291-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B7291.128837757221864 (code B ref 7291); Fri, 29 Oct 2010 18:40:02 +0000 Original-Received: (at 7291) by debbugs.gnu.org; 29 Oct 2010 18:39:32 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1PBtrP-0005gb-3F for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 29 Oct 2010 14:39:32 -0400 Original-Received: from colin.muc.de ([193.149.48.1] helo=mail.muc.de) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1PBtrM-0005gV-FM for 7291@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 29 Oct 2010 14:39:29 -0400 Original-Received: (qmail 46970 invoked by uid 3782); 29 Oct 2010 18:43:39 -0000 Original-Received: from acm.muc.de (pD9E503E7.dip.t-dialin.net [217.229.3.231]) by colin2.muc.de (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Fri, 29 Oct 2010 20:43:38 +0200 Original-Received: (qmail 3368 invoked by uid 1000); 29 Oct 2010 18:56:59 -0000 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.9i X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/1.1.5 (Fettercairn) X-Primary-Address: acm@muc.de X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list Resent-Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2010 14:40:02 -0400 X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:41242 Archived-At: Hi, Stefan! On Thu, Oct 28, 2010 at 04:12:16PM -0400, Stefan Monnier wrote: > Honestly, I can't think of any way someone who has the least bit of > familiarity with Elisp can wonder "whether `non-essential'=nil or > `non-essential'=t means performing a non-essential task (whatever that > in turn might mean)". Me. How should I get the notion of "task" from the logically incomplete phrase "non-essential? Please change the name of this variable to say what it means. "Non-essential" is way, way too abstract (in the sense of woolly, meaningless). I write the following as a native English speaker. The word "essential" describes a _RELATIONSHIP_ between _TWO_ nouns: A is essential to B if B without A wouldn't be B at all. For example, an extension language is essential to Emacs (?Emacs without an extension language?), and love is essential to a marriage (?a marriage without love?). To say that something is "essential" is like saying something is "better". Lacking the other noun (possibly implied), it's meaningless. The variable name "non-essential" is meaningless. The doc string helps a little, but not enough. It doesn't say what the task being executed is essential _to_. What would not be what it is to be, were the "essential task" to be missing? Such vagueness and linguistic misuse causes not only puzzlement, but also anger, revulsion and contempt. Please rename the variable to say what it means. Thanks! > Stefan -- Alan Mackenzie (Nuremberg, Germany).