Re: Re: [PROPOSAL] Quick and easy installation instructions

[Adam <ahcnz@ihug.co.nz>]

On Monday 27 September 2010 02:52 am, Dan Davison wrote:
> Hi Richard,
>
> Richard Riley <rileyrg@gmail.com> writes:
> > Dan Davison <davison@stats.ox.ac.uk> writes:
> >> I think that the documentation concerning installation should be made
> >> more user-friendly. My impression is that the Org manual makes all this
> >> sound much harder than it needs to be, and I suspect that this is an
> >> entry-barrier for new Org users. For example, the first thing users
> >> encounter in the manual section is an instruction to edit a Makefile.
> >>
> >> I suggest we provide a "quick and easy installation" section to the
> >> manual, that shows people how to start using the latest version of
> >> Org-mode without messing about with compilation and installation (I
> >> rarely compile and have never "installed" Org-mode). It would also be
> >> helpful to include notes on how to find your ".emacs" file.
> >>
> >> This would involve the following changes to section 1.2 Installation:
> >>
> >> 1. The first thing it should say would be along the lines of
> >>    "A reasonably recent version of Org is included in Emacs. Are you
> >>    sure you need the latest version of Org?  If not, skip to the
> >>    Activation section and start using Org!"
> >
> > I would not go that way. org moves very very quickly.
> >
> > I would have it in bold letters "we thoroughly recommend taking the
> > latest org release from git and here is how to do it (git pull with a
> > label)". Then if and when issues arise they can git pull as and when the
> > fixes arrive.
>
> I do understand why you say this, but these are supposed to be easy
> instructions; they should not involve usage of any version control
> software.
>
> > I say this because some distros (debian being the prime example) can be
> > very tardy with including latest versions.
>
> Yes, I agree. The org-latest.{zip,tgz} are what should be recommended
> (with the info caveat)
>
> > And someone who uses emacs would not be overly put out by git installing
>
> I think that statement requires some modification. For starters, I don't
> think either of us use Windows, but I gather that git is not exactly
> easy to use on Windows.

I agree.   On my Windows machine, (and Emacs with org-mode work 
well there),  it was a case of getting the zipped org-mode package, 
unzipping into a suitable directory  (C:\emacs\orgx  or  C:
\home\emacs\lisp\orgx  etc), and then  add-to-list;  load-path  
and require 'org-install,  and maybe a require 'org (not sure). 

After that, then adding org agenda files paths, diary etc. 

This uses no Git.   And I didn't realize how simple upgrading to a newer  
orgmode could be.  Compiling isn't important at this stage. 


> > or unzipping I think.
> >
> >> 2. Then we should lay out an easy route and a full route:
> >>    1. Quick and easy
> >>       Download, set your load-path and (require 'org-install)
> >>       Optionally compile (within emacs[1]?)
> >>       Suggested text below.
> >>    2. Full install
> >>       Based on existing instructions
> >
> > I would leave out the compile all together : advanced users who might
> > need it will know how to do it. old elc files are a frequent issue with
> > beginners that rears its ugly head time and time again.
>
> Sounds good to me. I have an intel atom processor and I don't find
> myself wanting to compile for extra speed.
>
> >> What do people think? Is it just the info files which are the issue?
> >> What does a single-user machine gain from installation other than info
> >> files?
> >
> > Info files are the issue. The addition to the infopath of the new info
> > files is frequently an issue too. I say that because emacs info is my
> > nemesis : I have never *properly* understood the way dir files work and
> > frequently spend ages scratching my head as to where info files should
> > really go ;)
>
> Hmm, well I'm glad it's not just me :) But I think it would be OK if we
> made it clear that, if they are following the easy route, they should
> use the html/pdf documentation on the website.
>
> Dan
>
> >> Dan
> >>
> >> Footnotes:
> >>
> >> [1] How about including in Org-mode a function `org-compile' based on
> >> http://orgmode.org/worg/org-hacks.php#compiling-org-without-make
> >> and `org-reload'
> >>
> >> Example quick and Easy installation text:
> >> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> >>
> >> 1. Download the latest version
> >>    .zip and .tar.gz version are kept at
> >>    http://orgmode.org/org-latest.zip
> >>    http://orgmode.org/org-latest.tar.gz
> >>
> >> 2. Extract the archived files
> >>    This will create a folder called "org-mode". Let's say that the
> >>    location of this folder is "~/path/to/org-mode" (for Windows see
> >>    footnote [1])
> >>
> >> 3. Add the following lines to your .emacs file (note that we're pointing
> >>    to the "lisp" folder *within* the main "org-mode" folder):
> >>
> >>    (setq load-path (cons "~/path/to/org-mode/lisp" load-path)
> >>    (require 'org-install)
> >>
> >> That's it. However, this will not install the latest info files, so
> >> these will be out of date (corresponding to whatever version of Org
> >> shipped with your emacs). See XXXX for instructions on installing the
> >> info files.
> >>
> >> Now, Emacs should load whatever version of Org-mode you put at
> >> "~/path/to/org-mode". So to update Org in the future, simply delete that
> >> folder and replace it with a new one (steps 1 and 2 above).
> >>
> >> Footnotes:
> >>
> >> [1] On Windows, this path might look something like
> >> "C:\\path\to\org-mode"
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
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> >> Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
> >> http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode
>
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