From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Alan Mackenzie Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: C-d deleting region considered harmful Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2010 19:14:16 +0000 Message-ID: <20100919191416.GB7283@muc.de> References: <87eicrx1ls.fsf@catnip.gol.com> <4C94E03D.8090002@gmail.com> <87fwx699pc.fsf@catnip.gol.com> <83tylmyclx.fsf@gnu.org> <4C961787.3090907@gmail.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1284923330 27619 80.91.229.12 (19 Sep 2010 19:08:50 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2010 19:08:50 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Emacs-Devel devel To: Chad Brown Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sun Sep 19 21:08:48 2010 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OxPFj-0001Xl-BE for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 19 Sep 2010 21:08:43 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:58858 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1OxPFi-0005dy-MX for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 19 Sep 2010 15:08:42 -0400 Original-Received: from [140.186.70.92] (port=55850 helo=eggs.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1OxPFb-0005cN-QA for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 19 Sep 2010 15:08:36 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OxPFa-0006k0-4u for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 19 Sep 2010 15:08:35 -0400 Original-Received: from colin.muc.de ([193.149.48.1]:3407 helo=mail.muc.de) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OxPFZ-0006js-Ro for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 19 Sep 2010 15:08:34 -0400 Original-Received: (qmail 62723 invoked by uid 3782); 19 Sep 2010 19:01:51 -0000 Original-Received: from acm.muc.de (pD9E5277F.dip.t-dialin.net [217.229.39.127]) by colin2.muc.de (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Sun, 19 Sep 2010 21:01:49 +0200 Original-Received: (qmail 9283 invoked by uid 1000); 19 Sep 2010 19:14:16 -0000 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.9i X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/1.1.5 (Fettercairn) X-Primary-Address: acm@muc.de X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: FreeBSD 4.6-4.9 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:130497 Archived-At: 'afternoon, Chad, On Sun, Sep 19, 2010 at 11:00:50AM -0700, Chad Brown wrote: > Question for the people who dislike transient-mark-mode and it's > related behaviors: > Do you find yourself making an unwanted `highlighted region' using any > other method than C-xC-x? The potential candidates that come to mind > are `C-space and movement', shift-selection, and mouse-sweep. No, never. I disabled transient-mark-mode a split microsecond after it was thrust upon me. I think most hackers who "dislike" this will have done likewise. By the way, "dislike" doesn't come close to how I regard transient-mark-mode; visceral revulsion is closer to the mark and point. I still occasionally get this ghastly effect (e.g. when I start emacs -Q for some testing reason). Sometime I'll get around to hacking my copy of the place where this default is set. > I used to dislike transient-mark-mode (back when it was called > zmacs-region and I was using Epoch), and disabled it along with most > of the `chrome', but at one point I intentionally tried working with > all of the bells and whistles and found it helpful except when I was > using C-xC-x often when editing code. I spend more time editing text > these days, and much less hoping around with C-xC-x, so I just live > with the occasional distraction, but perhaps a way to invert the ARG > of exchange-point-and-mark would let more emacs hackers enjoy the > benefits of t-m-m without being annoyed by the spurious flashing/C-g. I'm sure t-m-m could be made nicer. For a start, it's a bumbling conflation of three things which ought to be independently setable, namely (i) Highligting of the region; (ii) a form of narrowing to the region; (iii) disablement of some region commands. In fact, if I could disable (i), that intrusive dark blue obliteration of my font-lock and hi-lock highlighting, I might even get to try t-m-m. But then, many of the config variables are so badly named ("transient-mark-mode" ought to be "transient-region-highlighting" since the mark is no longer transient by default - all region commands are by default executable) it would put me off even just setting these newspeak variables. BTW, I vote for C-d keeping its "do one thing and do it well" binding of `delete-char', even though I might have disqualified myself from voting. When I have to use inferior software I detest that software marking regions without my consent and thereby forcing my right hand away from the home position to remove this frivolous marking on pain of losing the entire region. In fact, I think I predicted the current confusion when the decision to make t-m-m a default was taken. > *Chad -- Alan Mackenzie (Nuremberg, Germany).