From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Ehud Karni" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Usage of standard-display-table in MSDOS Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2010 16:35:40 +0300 Organization: Mivtach-Simon Insurance agencies Message-ID: <201008271335.o7RDZehv024936@beta.mvs.co.il> References: <8739u47evm.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <201008241113.o7OBDkUX011519@beta.mvs.co.il> <83aaocnec1.fsf@gnu.org> <201008251304.o7PD4uJu028868@beta.mvs.co.il> <83vd6ymumt.fsf@gnu.org> <201008261526.o7QFQD7e030387@beta.mvs.co.il> <83k4ndmiij.fsf@gnu.org> Reply-To: ehud@unix.mvs.co.il NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1282916201 3161 80.91.229.12 (27 Aug 2010 13:36:41 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2010 13:36:41 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: eliz@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Aug 27 15:36:38 2010 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Ooz6h-0007UO-Mf for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 27 Aug 2010 15:36:36 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50336 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ooz6h-0007tx-6Y for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 27 Aug 2010 09:36:35 -0400 Original-Received: from [140.186.70.92] (port=52293 helo=eggs.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ooz5v-0007S0-1K for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 27 Aug 2010 09:35:47 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Ooz5t-0007Yo-Qf for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 27 Aug 2010 09:35:46 -0400 Original-Received: from [193.16.147.12] (port=49332 helo=unix.mvs.co.il) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Ooz5t-0007YB-Df; Fri, 27 Aug 2010 09:35:45 -0400 Original-Received: from beta.mvs.co.il (beta [10.253.0.3]) by unix.mvs.co.il (8.13.8/8.13.7) with ESMTP id o7RDZfiQ011712; Fri, 27 Aug 2010 16:35:42 +0300 Original-Received: from beta.mvs.co.il (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by beta.mvs.co.il (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id o7RDZfbI024939; Fri, 27 Aug 2010 16:35:41 +0300 Original-Received: (from root@localhost) by beta.mvs.co.il (8.14.1/8.14.1/Submit) id o7RDZehv024936; Fri, 27 Aug 2010 16:35:40 +0300 In-reply-to: <83k4ndmiij.fsf@gnu.org> (message from Eli Zaretskii on Thu, 26 Aug 2010 19:43:48 +0300) X-Mailer: Emacs 21.3.1 rmail (send-msg 1.109) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.4-2.6 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:129301 Archived-At: On Thu, 26 Aug 2010 19:43:48 Eli Zaretskii wrote: > > From: "Ehud Karni" > > > > No, I want Hebrew of any kind - DOS(CP862), UNIX (ISO-8862-8) and UTF > > to appear in Hebrew on BOTH text terminals and X. > > Sorry, I don't understand: what do you mean by "Hebrew of any kind"? > > In Emacs 23 and later, there's only one kind of Hebrew: the Unicode > kind. All the characters, including Hebrew, are internally > represented as their Unicode codepoints. When Emacs visits a file > encoded in cp862, it converts the encoded characters into their > Unicode codepoints. What is delivered to the screen is either some > encoding, like cp862 (in the case of a text terminal), or a glyph from > some font (on GUI terminals). In both of these cases, Emacs > translates the Unicode codepoints to either the corresponding cp862 > etc. codes, or to the codes of the characters in the font used to > display Hebrew. All that's needed for Emacs to DTRT is (a) that Emacs > knows it is dealing with Hebrew characters, and (b) for text terminals > only, that the terminal encoding is set up according to the encoding > the terminal expects. > > Now, what am I missing to understand why you needed to use display > tables? You missing the point that most of my files are not "word-processor" (or HTML/XML) files but are data file that are either read as ISO-8859-8 or no-conversion (binary) encoding. Now, some of them has DOS Hebrew (#x80-9A) and graphic characters in them, in ADDITION to UNIX Hebrew (#xE0-FA). I still want to see it as Hebrew characters (so I can read it) but with a distinction between the 2 Hebrew types, I want to know the 8-bit encoding, it matters. When I visit a file literally (i.e. no conversion) I still want to see the Hebrew (and DOS graphic) characters as Hebrew and graphics, not as an octal representation. So I have to use a display table, and I want it to work for both text terminals and X (or other windowed system - Mac, MS - which I myself don't use). > These graphic characters are part of Unicode as well (in the U+25XX > block), and Emacs 23 knows how to encode them in cp862, or any other > codepage that supports these characters. Try "C-x 8 RET 2525 RET" and > see for yourself, it has a valid cp862 encoding. What I want is just a subset of this in my display table, so bytes in the range #xB0-#xDF will be shown as is on text terminal and as the CP862 glyphs on X (I am willing to have different display tables for each case, I don't use text terminal and X on the same Emacs instance). I know how to do it when the locale environment is set to "en_GB". Can you instruct me how to do this when the locale environment is set to "he_IL" ? Just as curiosity, some times I get files where the Hebrew is encoded as the lower Latin letters and Aleph is represented by @ (this is known as old-code and it is still used by some companies, even though in is some other applications already use UTF-8 XML files). Do you have a way to display it as Hebrew without a display table ? Ehud. -- Ehud Karni Tel: +972-3-7966-561 /"\ Mivtach - Simon Fax: +972-3-7976-561 \ / ASCII Ribbon Campaign Insurance agencies (USA) voice mail and X Against HTML Mail http://www.mvs.co.il FAX: 1-815-5509341 / \ GnuPG: 98EA398D Better Safe Than Sorry