From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Tassilo Horn Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Emacs learning curve Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2010 15:16:16 +0200 Message-ID: <201007221516.17432.tassilo@member.fsf.org> References: <4C3B6A8A.80105@gmx.de> <201007170809.59479.tassilo@member.fsf.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1279804593 21367 80.91.229.12 (22 Jul 2010 13:16:33 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2010 13:16:33 +0000 (UTC) Cc: =?utf-8?q?=C3=93scar_Fuentes?= , Teemu Likonen , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Lennart Borgman Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Jul 22 15:16:31 2010 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1ObvdX-0004Sk-1T for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 22 Jul 2010 15:16:31 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:48265 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ObvdV-00040L-TC for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 22 Jul 2010 09:16:29 -0400 Original-Received: from [140.186.70.92] (port=60013 helo=eggs.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ObvdQ-0003zP-J9 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 22 Jul 2010 09:16:25 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1ObvdP-0001Vi-CS for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 22 Jul 2010 09:16:24 -0400 Original-Received: from deliver.uni-koblenz.de ([141.26.64.15]:16170) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1ObvdP-0001VI-3d for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 22 Jul 2010 09:16:23 -0400 Original-Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by deliver.uni-koblenz.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0B419782E837; Thu, 22 Jul 2010 15:16:22 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from deliver.uni-koblenz.de ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (deliver.uni-koblenz.de [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 01743-04-2; Thu, 22 Jul 2010 15:16:18 +0200 (CEST) X-CHKRCPT: Envelopesender noch tassilo@member.fsf.org Original-Received: from thinkpad.localnet (tsdh.uni-koblenz.de [141.26.67.142]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by deliver.uni-koblenz.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id C94B7782E83A; Thu, 22 Jul 2010 15:16:18 +0200 (CEST) User-Agent: KMail/1.13.5 (Linux/2.6.35-rc5-git6; KDE/4.4.5; x86_64; ; ) In-Reply-To: X-Face: `TY6r/ws=N5uqO1E`M=Sups<}n%T[E^o_?MJj List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:127635 Archived-At: On Thursday 22 July 2010 14:15:51 Lennart Borgman wrote: > > I think this muscle memory statement is much overstated. > > It would be interesting if anyone has some psychological research to > support this. No, but at least it's true for me. There's some mode that records key / command frequencies. Use it for a while and see how tiny the command fraction is compared to `self-insert-command'. Then add some time for thinking before writing to the calculation, and you'll see that the time needed for typing command key bindings is totally out of relevance. > I do not believe that is is overstated (but I do not have time to look > it now). Rather I think that for simple and often used commands (like > CUA) it is very important. Yeah, the most frequently used commands should be quick and easy. And that's true for the normal emacs bindings for those commands. But most modern editors waste short bindings also for commands that you need nearly never, like C-p for printing, C-s for saving, ... I think that has a purely technical reason: keychords consisting of multiple keys pressed one after the other were/are seldomly supported. Some years later, these short but wasteful bindings are standard, and now people try to conquer the last bastillion of good bindings... Bye, Tassilo