From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Harald Hanche-Olsen Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: delete-selection-mode Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2010 20:33:28 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <20100317.203328.433996451.hanche@math.ntnu.no> References: <20100317143519.GB4381@muc.de> <8739zy68n2.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1268872429 2607 80.91.229.12 (18 Mar 2010 00:33:49 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2010 00:33:49 +0000 (UTC) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Mar 18 01:33:45 2010 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Ns3gF-0007zP-RQ for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 18 Mar 2010 01:33:44 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:58050 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ns3gE-0001rl-U3 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 17 Mar 2010 20:33:42 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1Ns3g9-0001qd-Be for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 17 Mar 2010 20:33:37 -0400 Original-Received: from [140.186.70.92] (port=52838 helo=eggs.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ns3g7-0001qO-Oc for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 17 Mar 2010 20:33:36 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Ns3g5-0002OS-Ns for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 17 Mar 2010 20:33:35 -0400 Original-Received: from anne.math.ntnu.no ([129.241.15.150]:65188) by eggs.gnu.org with smtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Ns3g5-0002O9-GO for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 17 Mar 2010 20:33:33 -0400 Original-Received: (qmail 18336 invoked from network); 18 Mar 2010 00:33:30 -0000 Original-Received: from gauss.math.ntnu.no (HELO localhost) (hanche@129.241.15.102) by anne.math.ntnu.no with ESMTPA; 18 Mar 2010 00:33:30 -0000 In-Reply-To: <8739zy68n2.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> X-URL: http://www.math.ntnu.no/~hanche/ X-Mailer: Mew version 6.3.50 on Emacs 23.1.92 / Mule 6.0 (HANACHIRUSATO) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Solaris 10 (beta) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:122126 Archived-At: + David Kastrup : > Lennart Borgman writes: > > > On Wed, Mar 17, 2010 at 3:35 PM, Alan Mackenzie wrote: > > [...] > > to from other applications. They want that exactly because it saves > > them time > > Once. > > > and avoids confusion (which also costs them time). > > > > I for one agree with that argument. > > It is valid, but an O(1) type of argument. It will not outweigh O(n) > arguments even with a small factor eventually. Surely, O(n) outweighs O(1), but I am not convinced that the argument is O(1). I can only offer anecdotal evidence (myself). I have been an emacs user since the late '80s; I can certainly remember 18.54 being THE emacs for a long time. As a result, I am far from mouse centric, and I pretty much have most basic emacs keystrokes firmly embedded in my muscle memory. However, I do an ever increasing amount of text entry in things that aren't emacs: In web browsers (that web 2.0 thing), in computer algebra systems with their own GUIs, in OpenOffice, and even (hating every keystroke, but sometimes a man's gotta do what a man's gotta do) MS Word, and they ALL behave in you-know-what way. As a result, habits from those other places have started encroaching on my ingrained emacs habits, and I now do find myself, with distressing regularity, trying to delete the selection in emacs by just typing. For my part, this has ceased being an O(1) phenomenon and is now strictly O(n). So I'll experiment with having del-sel-mode turned on from now on. I didn't know it existed - imagine that! It's been around since 1992, if the comments in delsel.el are to be believed. I won't take a firm stand on whether it should be made default, but if not, I agree with those who say its existence needs to be made abundantly clear to users - in whatever fashion this can be done. - Harald