From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Alan Mackenzie Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: redisplay system of emacs Date: Sat, 30 Jan 2010 13:26:51 +0000 Message-ID: <20100130132651.GB1428@muc.de> References: <4B633B7C.8030700@gmx.de> <873a1nvlki.fsf@gmail.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1264857622 26917 80.91.229.12 (30 Jan 2010 13:20:22 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 30 Jan 2010 13:20:22 +0000 (UTC) Cc: grischka , rms@gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Paul R Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Jan 30 14:20:18 2010 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1NbDFG-0004Y8-U2 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 30 Jan 2010 14:20:15 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:40024 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1NbDFG-0008Fs-2j for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 30 Jan 2010 08:20:14 -0500 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1NbDFB-0008Fl-85 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 30 Jan 2010 08:20:09 -0500 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=48002 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1NbDFA-0008Fd-15 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 30 Jan 2010 08:20:08 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by monty-python.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1NbDF8-0002ZD-4s for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 30 Jan 2010 08:20:07 -0500 Original-Received: from colin.muc.de ([193.149.48.1]:1640 helo=mail.muc.de) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1NbDF7-0002Yr-Im for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 30 Jan 2010 08:20:05 -0500 Original-Received: (qmail 51132 invoked by uid 3782); 30 Jan 2010 13:20:03 -0000 Original-Received: from acm.muc.de (pD9E52CA2.dip.t-dialin.net [217.229.44.162]) by colin2.muc.de (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Sat, 30 Jan 2010 14:20:01 +0100 Original-Received: (qmail 1935 invoked by uid 1000); 30 Jan 2010 13:26:51 -0000 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <873a1nvlki.fsf@gmail.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.9i X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/1.1.5 (Fettercairn) X-Primary-Address: acm@muc.de X-detected-operating-system: by monty-python.gnu.org: FreeBSD 4.6-4.9 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:120693 Archived-At: Hi, Paul, On Sat, Jan 30, 2010 at 01:11:57PM +0100, Paul R wrote: > Richard, > > The term "ecosystem" is best avoided because it supposes an amoral > > stance. See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/words-to-avoid.html for the > > explanation. > I don't think the word ecosystem "(...) implies the absence of intention > and ethics", as stated in this page. Are you a native English speaker? "Ecosystem" is a system of ecology, which is the study of how organisms react with eachother and their shared environment. Implicit in ecology is its participants' obliviousness to ecology. > It does not imply the presence of them either. I think they are > independant concepts, and that a free software ecosystem is an > acceptable metaphor, because it shows that there is interdependency > (in fact free software licence favours this interdependency). There are other words which also imply interdependency yet which are less laden with loaded meanings. "Ecosystem" implies its participants (hackers etc.) are on the level of bugs, beetles and bacteria. It denigrates hackers, suggesting they are simply swept along helplessly by outrageous fortune, rather than being the agents of it. Some of these other words would be better, much better, such as .... > Can you suggest an alternative word that expresses this simple, yet > fundamental, concept ? A "community" for example, which expresses all the tenets of interdependency and tension. If you want to emphasise the ideas of competition between bits of free software (say, between perl, python and ruby), the best word is perhaps "market", or "marketplace of ideas". > -- > Paul -- Alan Mackenzie (Nuremberg, Germany).