From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Alan Mackenzie Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: Inadequate documentation of silly characters on screen. Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2009 15:58:48 +0000 Message-ID: <20091119155848.GB1314@muc.de> References: <20091118191258.GA2676@muc.de> <20091119082040.GA1720@muc.de> <874ooq8xay.fsf@wanchan.jasonrumney.net> <20091119141852.GC1720@muc.de> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1258648347 31208 80.91.229.12 (19 Nov 2009 16:32:27 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2009 16:32:27 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org, Andreas Schwab , Jason Rumney To: Stefan Monnier Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Nov 19 17:32:19 2009 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1NB9vT-0001VP-JG for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 19 Nov 2009 17:32:11 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:54931 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1NB9vQ-0001uN-KN for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 19 Nov 2009 11:32:04 -0500 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1NB9KT-0001Hf-2p for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 19 Nov 2009 10:53:53 -0500 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1NB9KO-0001F3-9F for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 19 Nov 2009 10:53:52 -0500 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=47492 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1NB9KO-0001Ex-07 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 19 Nov 2009 10:53:48 -0500 Original-Received: from colin.muc.de ([193.149.48.1]:1825 helo=mail.muc.de) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1NB9KN-0001Ac-1i for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 19 Nov 2009 10:53:47 -0500 Original-Received: (qmail 23136 invoked by uid 3782); 19 Nov 2009 15:53:45 -0000 Original-Received: from acm.muc.de (pD9E51409.dip.t-dialin.net [217.229.20.9]) by colin2.muc.de (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Thu, 19 Nov 2009 16:53:43 +0100 Original-Received: (qmail 1703 invoked by uid 1000); 19 Nov 2009 15:58:48 -0000 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.9i X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/1.1.5 (Fettercairn) X-Primary-Address: acm@muc.de X-detected-operating-system: by monty-python.gnu.org: FreeBSD 4.6-4.9 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:117258 Archived-At: Hi, Stefan, On Thu, Nov 19, 2009 at 10:30:18AM -0500, Stefan Monnier wrote: > > The actual character in the string is ñ (#x3f). > No: the string does not contain any characters, only bytes, because it's > a unibyte string. I'm thinking from the lisp viewpoint. The string is a data structure which contains characters. I really don't want to have to think about the difference between "chars" and "bytes" when I'm hacking lisp. If I do, then the abstraction "string" is broken. > So it contains the byte 241, not the character ñ. That is then a bug. I wrote "(aset nl 0 ?ñ)", not "(aset nl 0 241)". > The byte 241 can be inserted in multibyte strings and buffers because > it is also a char of code 4194289 (which gets displayed as \361). Hang on a mo'! How can the byte 241 "be" a char of code 4194289? This is some strange usage of the word "be" that I wasn't previously aware of. ;-) At this point, would you please just agree with me that when I do (setq nl "\n") (aset nl 0 ?ñ) (insert nl) , what should appear on the screen should be "ñ", NOT "\361"? Thanks! > Stefan -- Alan Mackenzie (Nuremberg, Germany).