From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Ryo Furue Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#4709: 23.1; keyboard-translate not working with emacs daemon Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2009 21:34:55 -1000 (HST) Message-ID: <20091014.213455.160674778.furue@hawaii.edu> References: <20091014.110719.209373463.furue@hawaii.edu> Reply-To: Ryo Furue , 4709@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1255592856 18559 80.91.229.12 (15 Oct 2009 07:47:36 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2009 07:47:36 +0000 (UTC) Cc: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org, 4709@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com To: monnier@iro.umontreal.ca Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Oct 15 09:47:25 2009 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1MyL3T-0001MO-L2 for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Thu, 15 Oct 2009 09:47:25 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:43733 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1MyL3S-0003bf-Sx for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Thu, 15 Oct 2009 03:47:22 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1MyL3O-0003bR-Tb for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 15 Oct 2009 03:47:18 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1MyL3K-0003Z6-8e for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 15 Oct 2009 03:47:18 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=40487 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1MyL3J-0003Yn-Sp for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 15 Oct 2009 03:47:13 -0400 Original-Received: from rzlab.ucr.edu ([138.23.92.77]:42350) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1MyL3J-00042m-8N for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 15 Oct 2009 03:47:13 -0400 Original-Received: from rzlab.ucr.edu (rzlab.ucr.edu [127.0.0.1]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-5) with ESMTP id n9F7lBLU010614; Thu, 15 Oct 2009 00:47:11 -0700 Original-Received: (from debbugs@localhost) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.14.3/8.14.3/Submit) id n9F7j7Ax010043; Thu, 15 Oct 2009 00:45:07 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2009 00:45:07 -0700 X-Loop: owner@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com Resent-From: Ryo Furue Resent-To: bug-submit-list@donarmstrong.com Resent-CC: Emacs Bugs 2Resent-Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2009 07:45:07 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: owner@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com X-Emacs-PR-Message: followup 4709 X-Emacs-PR-Package: emacs X-Emacs-PR-Keywords: Original-Received: via spool by submit@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com id=B.12555921068461 (code B ref -1); Thu, 15 Oct 2009 07:45:07 +0000 Original-Received: (at submit) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 15 Oct 2009 07:35:06 +0000 X-Spam-Bayes: score:0.5 Bayes not run. spammytokens:Tokens not available. hammytokens:Tokens not available. Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [199.232.76.165]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-5) with ESMTP id n9F7Z4AZ008380 for ; Thu, 15 Oct 2009 00:35:06 -0700 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1MyKrY-0004xY-AV for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 15 Oct 2009 03:35:04 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1MyKrT-0004uq-87 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 15 Oct 2009 03:35:03 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=60663 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1MyKrT-0004ul-1q for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 15 Oct 2009 03:34:59 -0400 Original-Received: from mta10.its.hawaii.edu ([128.171.224.146]:40629) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1MyKrS-00027t-Ig for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 15 Oct 2009 03:34:58 -0400 Original-Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.mta10.its.hawaii.edu by mta10.its.hawaii.edu (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 6.3-7.02 (built Jun 27 2008; 32bit)) id <0KRJ00A00P28AA00@mta10.its.hawaii.edu>; Wed, 14 Oct 2009 21:34:56 -1000 (HST) Original-Received: from localhost (amakihi.soest.hawaii.edu [128.171.156.62]) by mta10.its.hawaii.edu (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 6.3-7.02 (built Jun 27 2008; 32bit)) with ESMTPS id <0KRJ008WWP27JY10@mta10.its.hawaii.edu>; Wed, 14 Oct 2009 21:34:55 -1000 (HST) In-reply-to: X-Mailer: Mew version 6.2 on Emacs 23.1 / Mule 6.0 (HANACHIRUSATO) X-PMX-Version: 5.5.7.378829, Antispam-Engine: 2.7.2.376379, Antispam-Data: 2009.10.15.72422 X-detected-operating-system: by monty-python.gnu.org: Solaris 10 (beta) X-detected-operating-system: by monty-python.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) Resent-Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2009 03:47:18 -0400 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:31960 Archived-At: Stefan, | > We could even say that the keyboard-translate functionality | > is partially broken because it sometimes works and sometimes | > doesn't (Please recall my example). | | To tell you the truth, it's the first time I hear of this feature | being actually used. So that should give you the kind of priority | this feature request will "enjoy". I understand. It's you developers who decide on priority. All I can do is just to ask. But, please google and you'll find that keyboard translation is often suggested as a solution to the "C-h" problem. When I raised this issue in gnu.emacs.help, there was another person who was suffering from the lack of a truly global keyboard translation. I also found a posting on the net asking the same question as mine (why doesn't keyboard translation work with emacs daemon?). For a user using a "strange" keyboard (see below), keyboard translation is the cleanest solution. Finally, it's not good for emacs to leave a feature broken. Once you offer a feature, SOMEBODY (like me) will use it even though YOU personally don't think it's useful. | And of course it gets worse because of | the discussion below. | | > | Still, I wonder: why would you want to set such a mapping | > | everywhere? | > I'm not sure if I understand your question. . . . If you want | > a keyboard translation, you'd want it everywhere consistently, | > wouldn't you? | > In this particular case, I want C-h to delete the character | > before the cursor anywhere and everywhere (when deleting | > characters makes sense, that is. | | But do you really also want C-x C-h to invoke the command bound | to C-x C-? I've never been faced with such a situation. But, if there is ever such a situation, my answer must be "Yes, I would want C-x C-h to invoke the command bound to C-x C-?". Because the delete key does "not exist" to me! 1) My delete key doesn't work in the first place. I don't know what's wrong but it doesn't do anything on the bash prompt, for example, and it doesn't delete the character before the cursor on emacs (A message "End of Buffer" appears in the message line). 2) My delete key isn't easily accessible. On my regular keyboards, it's only accessible by pressing a "fn" key and "~`" key at the same time; it's really awkward to type. 3) I can't press it on my other keyboard without looking for it. It's too far from the home position. These things have been fine with me because I've never needed the delete key. The delete key exists as a physical entity but, considering the situation above, you'll agree that it's as good as non-existent to me. So, if faced with a need for such a combination as "C-x C-?", I would choose to use "C-x C-h". | > I used to use | > (global-set-key "\C-h" 'delete-backward-char) | | That seems closer to what you want, yes. But admittedly, C-h is | hardwired at many places, so you'd have to "fix" them one by one as | you bump into them. I agree that that's doable. But, as I said (and as you seem to admit), it's not the cleanest solution, especially for a user like me who doesn't have a delete key in the first place :-) | > So, I think keyboard-translate is the cleanest, | > once-and-for-all solution, if it works globally. | | Have you tried key-translation-map (which is global)? | I have never understand the existence of both key-translation-map | and keyboard-translate-table. I've never heard of it. I'll investigate. Thank you for the suggestion. Regards, Ryo