Debian Mono / Tomboy

Debian Mono / Tomboy

[Russell Adams]

Slightly offtopic, but I was reading /. where they are arguing over
the inclusion of Mono in Debian in order to support the Tomboy app.

I won't get into the whole Mono debate, but I was curious why the
angst over one application? Whats it do?

Its a note taking app for Gnome written in Mono! In fact, it sounds
like they are trying for some similar Org functionality, but with a
GUI frontend.

I think it ironic they are arguing over including this in Debian, when
they already have Emacs and Org out of the box. ;]

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Russell Adams                            RLAdams@AdamsInfoServ.com

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Re: Debian Mono / Tomboy

[David Libert]

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On Sun, Jun 28, 2009 at 2:25 AM, Russell Adams <RLAdams@adamsinfoserv.com>wrote:

> Slightly offtopic, but I was reading /. where they are arguing over
> the inclusion of Mono in Debian in order to support the Tomboy app.
>
> I won't get into the whole Mono debate, but I was curious why the
> angst over one application? Whats it do?
>
> Its a note taking app for Gnome written in Mono! In fact, it sounds
> like they are trying for some similar Org functionality, but with a
> GUI frontend.
>
> I think it ironic they are arguing over including this in Debian, when
> they already have Emacs and Org out of the box. ;]
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------
> Russell Adams                            RLAdams@AdamsInfoServ.com



  I used to use Tomboy as my main desktop wiki.  Then I switched to
emacs-wiki, and more
recently from that to org-mode.

  Tomboy gets the linking aspect of a wiki in a simple GUI.  This gives it a
lot of power over
simple note taking, but the power of any wiki.

  Some features in Tomboy and emacs-wiki which as far as I have discovered
are not in
org-mode though are backlinks  (ie "what links here"),  and simple text
searches accross
the entire wiki.  emacs-wiki does this by a simple shell pipe using find
which should be easy
to do in org-mode.

  There is also a lot of talk going on in the Tomboy cotroversies involving
gnote.  That is a new
app, which ports Tomboy out from mono to straight C++.  It attempts to
duplicate the user
experience of Tomboy as much as possible, though I did read on the gnote web
site there
is one feature (pinning)  that they are changing.

  I have run Tomboy and gnote and they do look very similar.

  There is also a lot of talk about this in Ubuntu, and apparently Ubuntu is
about to drop Tomboy and
replace it with gnote, over the mono issue, and similarly for other mono
apps.

  One nice GUI feature of Tomboy and gnote.  The default is new notes are
opened in their own
window, which is small.  So you can readily get many notes on screen side by
side, and use
the window manager to organize them by placement.


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-- 
David Libert
email :    libert.david@gmail.com
web:     http://web.ncf.ca/ah170/

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Re: Debian Mono / Tomboy

[Manish]

  On Sun, Jun 28, 2009 at 11:55 AM, Russell Adams wrote:
  > Slightly offtopic, but I was reading /. where they are arguing over
  > the inclusion of Mono in Debian in order to support the Tomboy app.
  >
  > I won't get into the whole Mono debate, but I was curious why the
  > angst over one application? Whats it do?
  >
  > Its a note taking app for Gnome written in Mono! In fact, it sounds
  > like they are trying for some similar Org functionality, but with a
  > GUI frontend.
  >
  >
  > I think it ironic they are arguing over including this in Debian, when
  > they already have Emacs and Org out of the box. ;]

The feeling of angst is caused by making Tomboy _required_ for Gnome and
what it, in turn, requires to run - Mono.  It's certainly not a
_required_ application and even more so when alternatives exist.  But
you knew that already.

http://www.itwire.com/content/view/25215/1090/1/1/
http://www.theopensourcerer.com/2009/06/12/the-ubuntumono-debate-continues/

-- 
Manish

Re: Debian Mono / Tomboy

[Ian Barton]

Russell Adams wrote:
> Slightly offtopic, but I was reading /. where they are arguing over
> the inclusion of Mono in Debian in order to support the Tomboy app.
> 
> I won't get into the whole Mono debate, but I was curious why the
> angst over one application? Whats it do?
> 
> Its a note taking app for Gnome written in Mono! In fact, it sounds
> like they are trying for some similar Org functionality, but with a
> GUI frontend.
they already have Emacs and Org out of the box. ;]

Mono is a "clone" of Microsoft's Dot Net framework. It's good in that 
makes it possible for Windows C# programmers to develop Linux apps. 
However, the concern is that at some point, MS will decide to start a 
patent war over Mono. If Mono becomes "required" for the Gnome desktop, 
rather than just providing nice add on programs, Gnome would be sunk.

The anti Mono faction want it to be treated like restricted codecs, 
available for download if users choose, but not there by default.

Ian.

Re: Debian Mono / Tomboy

[Ian Barton]

> I won't get into the whole Mono debate, but I was curious why the
> angst over one application? Whats it do?
> 
>
Forgot to mention that it's well worth listening to a few episodes of 
the Software Freedom Law Show podcast at 
http://www.softwarefreedom.org/podcast/

Karen and Bradley achieve the impossible by making software licensing 
and copyright issues sound interesting. In true geek spirit the shows 
are numbered in hex, starting with podcast number zero.

Ian.

Re: Debian Mono / Tomboy

[Russell Adams]

On Sun, Jun 28, 2009 at 09:05:27AM +0100, Ian Barton wrote:
>
> Mono is a "clone" of Microsoft's Dot Net framework. It's good in that  
> makes it possible for Windows C# programmers to develop Linux apps.  
> However, the concern is that at some point, MS will decide to start a  
> patent war over Mono. If Mono becomes "required" for the Gnome desktop,  
> rather than just providing nice add on programs, Gnome would be sunk.
>
> The anti Mono faction want it to be treated like restricted codecs,  
> available for download if users choose, but not there by default.

I can appreciate that, just look at the delayed enforcement that
happened with MP3. They waited until it became a "standard" and then
demanded payment.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MP3#Licensing_and_patent_issues
http://www.chillingeffects.org/patent/notice.cgi?NoticeID=464

Why would we want a Microsoft specific technology used in a core OSS
product? I know Mono devs try to avoid the "us vs them" mentality, but
it comes down to a trust issue.

I won't harp on it, I just thought it was interesting that an
organizer was at the center of the debate. They should just use Org
and be happy!

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Russell Adams                            RLAdams@AdamsInfoServ.com

PGP Key ID:     0x1160DCB3           http://www.adamsinfoserv.com/

Fingerprint:    1723 D8CA 4280 1EC9 557F  66E8 1154 E018 1160 DCB3

Re: Debian Mono / Tomboy

[Dmitri Minaev]

On Sun, Jun 28, 2009 at 1:05 PM, Ian Barton<lists@manor-farm.org> wrote:

> Mono is a "clone" of Microsoft's Dot Net framework. It's good in that makes
> it possible for Windows C# programmers to develop Linux apps. However, the
> concern is that at some point, MS will decide to start a patent war over
> Mono. If Mono becomes "required" for the Gnome desktop, rather than just
> providing nice add on programs, Gnome would be sunk.

Somehow this perspective doesn't depress me as it's supposed to...