From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: tomas@tuxteam.de Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Printing Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2009 13:51:19 +0200 Message-ID: <20090402115119.GA29256@tomas> References: <5f0660120903281352v5d7ab83cy44fcff3cbf4581cb@mail.gmail.com> <87ljqnkvn9.fsf@jehiel.elehack.net> <20090402100822.GC28589@tomas> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; x-action=pgp-signed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1238672916 888 80.91.229.12 (2 Apr 2009 11:48:36 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2009 11:48:36 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Eli Zaretskii , tomas@tuxteam.de, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Lennart Borgman Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Apr 02 13:49:54 2009 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1LpLQe-0003j4-7X for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 02 Apr 2009 13:49:52 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:45038 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1LpLPG-0007Q2-3z for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 02 Apr 2009 07:48:26 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1LpLNy-00079P-NW for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 02 Apr 2009 07:47:06 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1LpLNu-00075a-CL for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 02 Apr 2009 07:47:06 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=42398 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1LpLNt-00075S-W2 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 02 Apr 2009 07:47:02 -0400 Original-Received: from alextrapp1.equinoxe.de ([217.22.192.104]:53936 helo=www.elogos.de) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1LpLNr-0002y5-GO; Thu, 02 Apr 2009 07:47:00 -0400 Original-Received: by www.elogos.de (Postfix, from userid 1000) id A2DCD90069; Thu, 2 Apr 2009 13:51:19 +0200 (CEST) Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.15+20070412 (2007-04-11) X-detected-operating-system: by monty-python.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:109997 Archived-At: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Thu, Apr 02, 2009 at 12:52:25PM +0200, Lennart Borgman wrote: [...] > Is not this reality versus ideality? I think most users on different > systems will appreciate that we use the API:s for that system. They > will know what to do at once then without having to relearn. In a way, yes, but I think my rant still holds. Even while there is some truth to what you say above, you are conflating API with "user interface" ("most users ...will appreciate that we use the APIs... they will know..."). See? That is the think coming from Microsoft and Apple: One Big System, from device driver up to desktop environment. And we are copying that (but I'm getting seriously off-topic with that by now, I fear). > And a simple way to do this is to use an intermediate layer like wxwidg= ets. For printing? Well, that's what my rant was about :-) Look at the Gnome guys. There is mount, there is FUSE (I'm sure BSDs have something similar). Why VFS? Why invent a new way of "mounting" "file systems" which is dependent on some random desktop environment? (KDE ain't better in this!). In our printer case I'd propose to start recognizing that we have several layers: (1) how to render (2) how to choose a printer (3) how to configure the capabilities of a printer For (1), I think we'd be fine if we managed to render utf-8 via one of ps or pdf properly. (2) and (3) might be in the realm of CUPS, perhaps? Showing the "standard" "system" "printer dialog box" would fulfill your proposal above, but that is now an entirely separate point. Regards, and thanks for beearing with my rant :) - -- tom=C3=A1s -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFJ1Ka3Bcgs9XrR2kYRAumVAKCBkVeZ9oVfA0VPpev19GZ67W7xeQCZAdDM dm+VOpzR4qTYun4PmIpUFCE=3D =3Dbhyn -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----