bug#1326: 23.0.60; Customizations cannot be saved with empty .emacs

bug#1326: 23.0.60; Customizations cannot be saved with empty .emacs

[Markus Triska]

When I comment out or remove all forms in .emacs, and then do:

   emacs --eval "(customize-face 'default)"

The customization buffer reads:

   To apply your changes, use the Save or Set buttons.

However, neither of them is shown.

In GNU Emacs 23.0.60.2 (i386-apple-darwin8.11.1, GTK+ Version 2.12.9)
 of 2008-11-05 on mt-computer.local
Windowing system distributor `The XFree86 Project, Inc', version 11.0.40400000
Important settings:
  value of $LC_ALL: nil
  value of $LC_COLLATE: nil
  value of $LC_CTYPE: nil
  value of $LC_MESSAGES: nil
  value of $LC_MONETARY: nil
  value of $LC_NUMERIC: nil
  value of $LC_TIME: nil
  value of $LANG: en_GB.UTF-8
  value of $XMODIFIERS: nil
  locale-coding-system: nil
  default-enable-multibyte-characters: t

bug#1326: 23.0.60; Customizations cannot be saved with empty .emacs

[Glenn Morris]

Markus Triska wrote:

> When I comment out or remove all forms in .emacs, and then do:
>
>    emacs --eval "(customize-face 'default)"
>
> The customization buffer reads:
>
>    To apply your changes, use the Save or Set buttons.
>
> However, neither of them is shown.

Could it be that when you comment out all the lines in your .emacs,
the tool-bar is shown? The tool-bar buttons, if visible, replace the
in-buffer save/set buttons.

bug#1326: 23.0.60; Customizations cannot be saved with empty .emacs

[Markus Triska]

Glenn Morris <rgm@gnu.org> writes:

> Could it be that when you comment out all the lines in your .emacs,
> the tool-bar is shown? The tool-bar buttons, if visible, replace the
> in-buffer save/set buttons.

You're right, they are in the tool bar! It would be great if they were
in the buffer as well, so that they can be reached with the keyboard.

bug#1326: 23.0.60; Customizations cannot be saved with empty .emacs

[Glenn Morris]

Markus Triska wrote:

> You're right, they are in the tool bar! It would be great if they were
> in the buffer as well, so that they can be reached with the keyboard.

It was a deliberate choice to not put them in the buffer when the
tool-bar is on:

2007-07-05  Chong Yidong  <cyd@stupidchicken.com>
[...]
        (custom-buffer-create-internal): Insert action buttons
        only if tool bar is not used.

bug#1326: 23.0.60; Customizations cannot be saved with empty .emacs

[Andreas Schwab]

Glenn Morris <rgm@gnu.org> writes:

> Markus Triska wrote:
>
>> You're right, they are in the tool bar! It would be great if they were
>> in the buffer as well, so that they can be reached with the keyboard.
>
> It was a deliberate choice to not put them in the buffer when the
> tool-bar is on:
>
> 2007-07-05  Chong Yidong  <cyd@stupidchicken.com>
> [...]
>         (custom-buffer-create-internal): Insert action buttons
>         only if tool bar is not used.

What if the buffer is later displayed in a frame without a tool bar?

Andreas.

-- 
Andreas Schwab, SuSE Labs, schwab@suse.de
SuSE Linux Products GmbH, Maxfeldstraße 5, 90409 Nürnberg, Germany
PGP key fingerprint = 58CA 54C7 6D53 942B 1756  01D3 44D5 214B 8276 4ED5
"And now for something completely different."

bug#1326: 23.0.60; Customizations cannot be saved with empty .emacs

[Glenn Morris]

I'm inclined just to remove this feature; but I'm hoping to hear why
it was added.

bug#1326: 23.0.60; Customizations cannot be saved with empty .emacs

[Chong Yidong]

Glenn Morris <rgm@gnu.org> writes:

> I'm inclined just to remove this feature; but I'm hoping to hear why
> it was added.

It was added to prevent redundancy between having buttons in the toolbar
and functionally identical buttons in the button.  Remove it if you
like; I don't feel strongly about it.

bug#1326: 23.0.60; Customizations cannot be saved with empty .emacs

[Glenn Morris]

Chong Yidong wrote:

> It was added to prevent redundancy between having buttons in the toolbar
> and functionally identical buttons in the button.  Remove it if you
> like; I don't feel strongly about it.

I don't either; but I think Andreas's scenario, albeit unlikely, might
be enough reason to remove it.

bug#1326: 23.0.60; Customizations cannot be saved with empty .emacs

[Reiner Steib]

On Sun, Nov 16 2008, Glenn Morris wrote:

> Chong Yidong wrote:
>> It was added to prevent redundancy between having buttons in the toolbar
>> and functionally identical buttons in the button.  Remove it if you
>> like; I don't feel strongly about it.
>
> I don't either; but I think Andreas's scenario, albeit unlikely, might
> be enough reason to remove it.

Here's another reason: The icons are not (and probably cannot be)
clear enough.  You have to hover over them and read the tool-tips to
find out what they do.

(Maybe it's worth to make it customizable.)

Bye, Reiner.
-- 
       ,,,
      (o o)
---ooO-(_)-Ooo---  |  PGP key available  |  http://rsteib.home.pages.de/

bug#1326: 23.0.60; Customizations cannot be saved with empty .emacs

[Stefan Monnier]

>>> It was added to prevent redundancy between having buttons in the toolbar
>>> and functionally identical buttons in the button.  Remove it if you
>>> like; I don't feel strongly about it.
>> 
>> I don't either; but I think Andreas's scenario, albeit unlikely, might
>> be enough reason to remove it.

I agree that this "feature" might better be removed (i.e. the redundant
bindings should be left alone).  It's not like Emacs never has redundant
ways to get at something.


        Stefan


PS: Some other redundancies that come to mind are the major&minor mode
menus that are present both in the menu bar and by clicking on the
mode's lighter in the mode-line.

bug#1326: marked as done (23.0.60; Customizations cannot be saved with empty .emacs)

[Emacs bug Tracking System]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 892 bytes --]


Your message dated Sun, 16 Nov 2008 18:28:30 -0500
with message-id <fkr65bw8rl.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org>
and subject line Re: bug#1326: 23.0.60; Customizations cannot be saved with empty .emacs
has caused the Emacs bug report #1326,
regarding 23.0.60; Customizations cannot be saved with empty .emacs
to be marked as done.

This means that you claim that the problem has been dealt with.
If this is not the case it is now your responsibility to reopen the
bug report if necessary, and/or fix the problem forthwith.

(NB: If you are a system administrator and have no idea what this
message is talking about, this may indicate a serious mail system
misconfiguration somewhere. Please contact don@donarmstrong.com
immediately.)


-- 
1326: http://emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=1326
Emacs Bug Tracking System
Contact don@donarmstrong.com with problems

[-- Attachment #2: Type: message/rfc822, Size: 2763 bytes --]

From: Markus Triska <markus.triska@gmx.at>
To: emacs-pretest-bug@gnu.org
Subject: 23.0.60; Customizations cannot be saved with empty .emacs
Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2008 16:38:30 +0100 (CET)
Message-ID: <20081110153830.C8E7EB8030A@mt-computer.local>


When I comment out or remove all forms in .emacs, and then do:

   emacs --eval "(customize-face 'default)"

The customization buffer reads:

   To apply your changes, use the Save or Set buttons.

However, neither of them is shown.

In GNU Emacs 23.0.60.2 (i386-apple-darwin8.11.1, GTK+ Version 2.12.9)
 of 2008-11-05 on mt-computer.local
Windowing system distributor `The XFree86 Project, Inc', version 11.0.40400000
Important settings:
  value of $LC_ALL: nil
  value of $LC_COLLATE: nil
  value of $LC_CTYPE: nil
  value of $LC_MESSAGES: nil
  value of $LC_MONETARY: nil
  value of $LC_NUMERIC: nil
  value of $LC_TIME: nil
  value of $LANG: en_GB.UTF-8
  value of $XMODIFIERS: nil
  locale-coding-system: nil
  default-enable-multibyte-characters: t



[-- Attachment #3: Type: message/rfc822, Size: 1891 bytes --]

From: Glenn Morris <rgm@gnu.org>
To: 1326-done@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com
Subject: Re: bug#1326: 23.0.60; Customizations cannot be saved with empty .emacs
Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2008 18:28:30 -0500
Message-ID: <fkr65bw8rl.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org>


I've removed this feature - now the in-buffer buttons are always shown.