From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Taylor Venable Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Why @#! is not Emacs using the Recycle bin on w32? Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 16:46:37 -0400 Message-ID: <20080829164637.4211a5b7.taylor@metasyntax.net> References: <48B7288E.3040503@gmail.com> <48B73AA9.5090900@gnu.org> <48B73D8F.90501@gmail.com> <48B7AC10.6090800@gmail.com> <48B7B08B.6050103@gmail.com> <48B7F905.7060605@gmail.com> <001301c909e8$d63092e0$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> <20080829155801.05fabc31.taylor@metasyntax.net> <48B85740.8060309@gmail.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1220042826 28351 80.91.229.12 (29 Aug 2008 20:47:06 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 20:47:06 +0000 (UTC) Cc: 'David House' , 'Eli Zaretskii' , jasonr@gnu.org, Drew Adams , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: "Lennart Borgman (gmail)" Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Aug 29 22:47:58 2008 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1KZAsv-0000GA-N9 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 29 Aug 2008 22:47:58 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:49440 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1KZArx-0004gx-10 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 29 Aug 2008 16:46:57 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1KZArs-0004gs-IV for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 29 Aug 2008 16:46:52 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1KZArq-0004f9-Us for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 29 Aug 2008 16:46:51 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=48577 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1KZArq-0004f0-Sg for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 29 Aug 2008 16:46:50 -0400 Original-Received: from mout.perfora.net ([74.208.4.194]:64047) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1KZArj-0007hz-MG; Fri, 29 Aug 2008 16:46:43 -0400 Original-Received: from lionel.metasyntax.net (75-149-208-122-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net [75.149.208.122]) by mrelay.perfora.net (node=mrus1) with ESMTP (Nemesis) id 0MKpCa-1KZArc1m0p-0005bR; Fri, 29 Aug 2008 16:46:43 -0400 In-Reply-To: <48B85740.8060309@gmail.com> X-Mailer: Sylpheed 2.4.8 (GTK+ 2.12.9; i486-pc-linux-gnu) X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX1/EJSyjBgjJErNvYYGNM6bkOIDtctuYinmrvpR G23loQsVAn7nX7+aMWEr1bVjG0xdkjZktDUi+iciiR6ubIiwtQ s+KlR2V1LcSPvGVU9OLxg== X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:103206 Archived-At: On Fri, 29 Aug 2008 22:08:32 +0200 "Lennart Borgman (gmail)" wrote: > Taylor Venable wrote: > > Maybe, assuming you have a Trash. But where is it? It could be the > > one that Nautilus uses, or the one that Konqueror uses. If you > > don't use GNOME or KDE you probably don't have a Trash. Then what > > is the point of moving things there? > > Is this really true? > > Someone said that trash cans are something that belongs to the shell. > On w32 that is fortunately true only in a very limited sense. You can > do file deletions without using the trash can and you must use what I > believe MS call "shell api". > > However it comes with the system! That is the important point. And of > course such a component should follow with the system so that > different shell developers s does not invent the wheel again. (Doing > that may create a lot of work for other people.) > > Why not try to take that up with the GNU/Linux developers? The simple answer is because the GNU/Linux (or rather, Unix in general) architecture does not operate like Windows does with respect to this tight level of integration. Even getting the GNOME and KDE guys to use the same place would not solve the problem because a user always has the freedom to use another environment (or write their own) which might not conform. You cannot second-guess that such high-level features will be available in a Unix environment because we are much more free to do as we will in such a system. Besides, because of the way Unix systems are compartmentalized, implementing such a thing in a universal way would take an impossible amount of work. Who should decide where your files go when they die? At the most fundamental point this is a filesystem decision; but then your editor would work differently according to what filesystem you were using. You might make the argument that you already get this effect if you try to open a file on a read-only medium like a CD, but that precedent is already well established, and using different hard- disk filesystems is far more subtle. -- Taylor Venable http://real.metasyntax.net:2357/ foldr = lambda f, i, l: (len(l) == 1 and [f(l[0], i)] or [f(l[0], foldr(f, i, l[1:]))])[0]