From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Alan Mackenzie Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Release plans Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2008 14:04:13 +0000 Message-ID: <20080815140413.GA4781@muc.de> References: <10697146.3630221218551689983.JavaMail.www@wwinf4615> <20080812171404.GB7999@muc.de> <20080813092057.GA3010@muc.de> <20080814083817.GA2593@muc.de> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1218808946 27978 80.91.229.12 (15 Aug 2008 14:02:26 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2008 14:02:26 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: "Richard M. Stallman" Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Aug 15 16:03:16 2008 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1KTztS-0004kh-A7 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 15 Aug 2008 16:03:06 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:52708 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1KTzsV-00081w-EO for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 15 Aug 2008 10:02:07 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1KTzsR-0007zX-Fg for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 15 Aug 2008 10:02:03 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1KTzsP-0007zE-Ry for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 15 Aug 2008 10:02:03 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=41193 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1KTzsP-0007zB-PA for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 15 Aug 2008 10:02:01 -0400 Original-Received: from colin.muc.de ([193.149.48.1]:2244 helo=mail.muc.de) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1KTzsP-0003sT-1R for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 15 Aug 2008 10:02:01 -0400 Original-Received: (qmail 38274 invoked by uid 3782); 15 Aug 2008 14:01:55 -0000 Original-Received: from acm.muc.de (pD9E501E4.dip.t-dialin.net [217.229.1.228]) by colin2.muc.de (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Fri, 15 Aug 2008 16:01:53 +0200 Original-Received: (qmail 7225 invoked by uid 1000); 15 Aug 2008 14:04:13 -0000 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.9i X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/1.1.5 (Fettercairn) X-Primary-Address: acm@muc.de X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: FreeBSD 4.6-4.9 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:102489 Archived-At: Hi, Richard! On Thu, Aug 14, 2008 at 11:41:16PM -0400, Richard M. Stallman wrote: > Hey, you snipped too much of the context, you rascal! The effort I was > talking about was that of a large company, with all the bureaucracy and > inertia that goes with it. > I was talking about switching your own computing to GNU/Linux, within > the company, not the bigger task of convincing the whole company to > change. With that clarified, is my response more understandable? Yes, indeed it is. Sorry for the misunderstanding. OK, to start with, most of my time at work needs access to the company network, for things like Email (over proprietary protocols), access to the VCS (often ClearCase (yuck!!)), sometimes "talk" programs, spreadsheets used for reserving meeting rooms, that kind of thing. I couldn't put GNU onto my desktop PC in the office, at least not without being instantly dismissed. If I were to bring in my own PC and connect it to the company network, something similar would happen - such is regarded as a security hazard, quite rightly. I'm not sure there's even any clients on GNU which speak the necessary proprietary protocols, such as for Email. The nearest I could get would be having my own PC alongside the office one, exchanging files by USB stick. How would this be any better, from a freedom point of view, than running the w32 versions of the software on the office PC? > Other people and groups are advancing free software by emphasising > free software's high quality. Yet you don't recognise their > efforts as legitimate, > You have misunderstood my position. I do not criticize them for > persuasively citing practical advantages. If they oppose our efforts > at a deeper level, by endorsing the idea that freedom is not an > important issue, I do criticize that. Your word "endorsing" is one of those flexible, vague, open-ended words that could mean almost anything. Do these other people actually campaign against software freedom? Do they actually say "freedom is unimportant", rather than just not mentioning it much? I think it's more important for people actually to be free than to be aware of it. -- Alan Mackenzie (Nuremberg, Germany).