From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Alan Mackenzie Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Emacs vista build failures Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2008 08:03:04 +0000 Message-ID: <20080726080304.GA1419@muc.de> References: <871w1njq32.fsf@catnip.gol.com> <87iquzxgtk.fsf@saeurebad.de> <4884CFEF.8040404@gmail.com> <48861A51.1090401@gmail.com> <20080724080727.GA3448@muc.de> <863alzd1mi.fsf@lola.quinscape.zz> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1217059512 25795 80.91.229.12 (26 Jul 2008 08:05:12 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2008 08:05:12 +0000 (UTC) Cc: rms@gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Jul 26 10:06:01 2008 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1KMemr-0002yc-0c for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 26 Jul 2008 10:05:57 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:44209 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1KMelw-0005HC-TG for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 26 Jul 2008 04:05:00 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1KMek7-0004aL-UR for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 26 Jul 2008 04:03:08 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1KMek6-0004ZK-EM for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 26 Jul 2008 04:03:07 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=47304 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1KMek5-0004Z5-T1 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 26 Jul 2008 04:03:06 -0400 Original-Received: from colin.muc.de ([193.149.48.1]:2091 helo=mail.muc.de) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1KMek5-0003uG-Us for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 26 Jul 2008 04:03:06 -0400 Original-Received: (qmail 4069 invoked by uid 3782); 26 Jul 2008 08:02:59 -0000 Original-Received: from acm.muc.de (pD9E534C8.dip.t-dialin.net [217.229.52.200]) by colin2.muc.de (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Sat, 26 Jul 2008 10:02:57 +0200 Original-Received: (qmail 2268 invoked by uid 1000); 26 Jul 2008 08:03:04 -0000 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.9i X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/1.1.5 (Fettercairn) X-Primary-Address: acm@muc.de X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: FreeBSD 4.6-4.9 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:101505 Archived-At: Morning, everybody! On Fri, Jul 25, 2008 at 05:20:16PM +0300, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > > From: Richard M Stallman > > Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2008 18:05:28 -0400 > > Cc: lord@emf.net, drobinow@gmail.com, lennart.borgman@gmail.com, > > hannes@saeurebad.de, emacs-devel@gnu.org, acm@muc.de, miles@gnu.org > > > When I ask myself, is the world better for having Emacs and Firefox > > > running on Microsoft Windows, the answer is an unequivocal yes - > > > people who hack on MS-Windows can thus do a better job. [David K:] > > But their job does not in general benefit others. Hmm. What if that software written on w32 has satisfied users? Let's see, users of mobile telephones, users of automotive control systems (which reduce pollution), Emacs itself (there is at least one Emacs developer with his Emacs hosted on w32), ....... [David K:] > > So we are creating better opportunities for work that does not > > help the community. "The" community. That of Free Software is merely one of many interlocking and interdependent communities. My view, already expressed, is that we have a moral imperative to contribute towards the wellbeing of the world, not just our own restricted subset of it. [Eli Z:] > Are you saying that my hacking on the Windows Emacs doesn't benefit > others, including Emacs on other platforms? I'll say it benefits an enormous number of people. It certainly benefitted me back in the days of 20.n. Without it, my day job would have been much more frustrating, and I wouldn't have ended up contributing to Emacs. My impression is that a substantial minority, possibly even a majority, of Emacs users run on this particular non-free OS, and that the cost of supporting them is low by comparison. Carry on doing it, Eli! Again, what is the purpose of free software? Is it an end in itself, it's final goal being its exclusive use by everybody, or is it to improve the world? If the former, I hope the goal is never scored, because then free software would by stymied, with nowhere to go. -- Alan Mackenzie (Nuremberg, Germany).